2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by godlameroso » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:04 pm

BrunoH wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:26 pm
even if merc makes pole, and it should... for some reason, it looks like the Ferrari can follow / work better in the dirty air than the competition.. so its not so straight forward in the race for the mercs....
There's a thread in the aero forum where someone proposed that disturbing the rear aero of a car by following closely affects the front aero of leading car. I'm inclined to agree, particularly with how many tiny vortex generators on the Mercedes.
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ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by ChrisDanger » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:17 am

turbof1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:36 pm
BanMeToo wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:38 pm
That could very well be true unfortunately. They have so few of them this season...
Next year they will have to do with only 3 PUs.
A little off topic but perhaps not.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 11782.html

hotochan
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by hotochan » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:07 pm

ChrisDanger wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:17 am
turbof1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:36 pm
BanMeToo wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:38 pm
That could very well be true unfortunately. They have so few of them this season...
Next year they will have to do with only 3 PUs.
A little off topic but perhaps not.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 11782.html
Short version: Instead of three PUs for a whole season coming next year, they all agreed to stay at four but at the price of three units for the private teams

FrukostScones
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by FrukostScones » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:49 pm

hotochan wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:07 pm
ChrisDanger wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:17 am
turbof1 wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:36 pm
Next year they will have to do with only 3 PUs.
A little off topic but perhaps not.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 11782.html
Short version: Instead of three PUs for a whole season coming next year, they all agreed to stay at four but at the price of three units for the private teams
good to see some flashes of common sense these days.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important. ...

godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by godlameroso » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:54 pm

Non Bernie logic.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by JonoNic » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:14 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:04 pm
BrunoH wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:26 pm
even if merc makes pole, and it should... for some reason, it looks like the Ferrari can follow / work better in the dirty air than the competition.. so its not so straight forward in the race for the mercs....
There's a thread in the aero forum where someone proposed that disturbing the rear aero of a car by following closely affects the front aero of leading car. I'm inclined to agree, particularly with how many tiny vortex generators on the Mercedes.
I agree with godlameroso. In Nascar, with two cars following each other, the car behind can cause the car in front to understeer if he tucks his front splitter under the rear bumper of the front car. So if that can happen to a Nascar with 'primitive' aero then the effect would be similar for two F1 cars following closely.
Always find the gap then use it.

CBeck113
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by CBeck113 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:02 pm

JonoNic wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:14 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:04 pm

There's a thread in the aero forum where someone proposed that disturbing the rear aero of a car by following closely affects the front aero of leading car. I'm inclined to agree, particularly with how many tiny vortex generators on the Mercedes.
I agree with godlameroso. In Nascar, with two cars following each other, the car behind can cause the car in front to understeer if he tucks his front splitter under the rear bumper of the front car. So if that can happen to a Nascar with 'primitive' aero then the effect would be similar for two F1 cars following closely.
Simple explanation, then back on topic:
If the second car is following closely enough, then the pressure difference of the first car front/rear decreases.
Negative: this pressure difference is used to calculate the aero of the car, and a pressure difference can ruin this calculation, making the aero "tools" (i.e. air flow) ineffective, causing the loss of DF
Positive: if close enough, the two cars become one (ok, more like "less than two") aerodynamically, and have double the power of a single car (but the aero is worse), so the possible top speed of both cars increases
Hope that makes sense...

I'm expecting to see Ham-Vet-Ves-Ric finish here, unless someone does something stupid.
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

1158
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by 1158 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:33 pm

I'm not sure how comparable the rear aero of F1 and NASCAR is. I would think the strong upwash off the back of the F1 car is going to make it hard for the rear car to disrupt the front car's aero unless the trailing car is more or less on top of the front car.

Rear aero on a stock car has a lot less energy.

- rear aero starts around 0:30 in

Then again I'm no aero guy so maybe I'm way off here. (Which BTW these posts about aero, while interesting, are off topic here)

godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by godlameroso » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:37 pm

What kind of fuel usage goes on in Sochi? It's a strange track for sure, lots of braking, so plenty of MGU-K harvesting. Cool weather, and non abrasive tarmac, yet the rear tires are pushed hard due to various off camber corners which leads to sliding under acceleration. It seems like a stop and go track but there are only 5 corners under 150kph and only 2 of them require heavy braking. There are only 2 long straights where speeds exceed 270kph, both DRS zones.

The thing that is really unusual is that on paper it seems like a boring circuit full of 90 degree corners and no flow to it because of the straights. However this is not true, the circuit has a very nice flow to it, and the corners have tricky exits, difficult braking points, and getting a good lap is really difficult. The layout can be learned in a few laps but takes at least 50 to really learn all the ins and outs.

The only downside is how little the Olympic park is used, so the scenery is a little dull in contrast to year 1.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Juzh
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Juzh » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:09 pm

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:37 pm
What kind of fuel usage goes on in Sochi?
Probably the worst track on the calendar on fuel.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:07 pm

"Ok Lewis/Valterri, fuel is critical"

I get the feeling btw that Ferrari has less of a fuel consumption 'issue' compared to Mercedes, but i can be completely mistaken.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

dans79
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by dans79 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:14 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:07 pm
"Ok Lewis/Valterri, fuel is critical"

I get the feeling btw that Ferrari has less of a fuel consumption 'issue' compared to Mercedes, but i can be completely mistaken.
It's hard to tell much right now, as FOM seems to only broadcast interesting communications between Kimi and the team. I've heard almost nothing between Vettel and the team so far this year.

ferkan
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by ferkan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:04 pm

Will be interesting for sure. First time they are running on US tires as well, in theory should bring the field closer.

BanMeToo
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by BanMeToo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:26 am

dans79 wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:14 pm
It's hard to tell much right now, as FOM seems to only broadcast interesting communications between Kimi and the team. I've heard almost nothing between Vettel and the team so far this year.
That reminds me. Hopefully we get some damn on-screen timing information for this race. It has been fairly pathetic so far in 2017.

evered7
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

Post by evered7 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:45 am

Manoah2u wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:07 pm
"Ok Lewis/Valterri, fuel is critical"

I get the feeling btw that Ferrari has less of a fuel consumption 'issue' compared to Mercedes, but i can be completely mistaken.
I remember Ferrari telling Vettel that fuel wasn't a problem after the first few laps on Australian GP (I think, could as well be Bahrain). So they are monitoring it as well.

Edit: It was not exactly mentioned as fuel, but you can push is what the team mentioned to Vettel.


18 To Sebastian Vettel
Have you set to mode to push? Move it, and then back to push, please. OK now it’s fine. Bottas one second behind.
18 To Sebastian Vettel
We don’t need those back-offs, you can push.