2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:07
basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 09:46
I did not mean "sacrifice" in the way of loosing positions but in the way of loosing the engine. I do not think that they would run their championship contender with those mappings to either win a race or to maintain a position in front of a car he will not catch under normal circumstances. A championship contender need to secure save points like Ham did in Monaco (no crazy strategy, no touchy overtaking).
Do you have any evidence of them using a different mode?
No evidence. Just the point, that he was massively pulling away from Vettel on the main straight for 2-3? laps. In the last (overtake) lap the gap was already closing before the start/finish line. As Bot always had a quite clean exit it comes down to power. Furthermore you do not see him lifting when Ham passed. This shows the massive DRS effect.
Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:07
His [Bottas] lack of pace in stint 1 meant that the 1-stop was the only way he could possibly gain a better position.
Too optimistic for me. Ham could not match Vet soft times. Bot falling into 29s is not a good strategy, no matter how you put it. It was just possible because RedBull was so slow and Rai was out.
Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:07
I also think that Mercedes does put a lot of emphasis on the WCC - and having any sort of DNF is very costly, no matter if it hits the leading car or the one driving behind. In that sense, I don't buy that Mercedes was willing to sacrifice one car for the others potential win, but was willing to perhaps take certain risk (on engine-strain, if indeed the case) to ensure the best possible finish for both cars.
Lauda clearly said, that they risked the engine on his order in Russia and that Bot was out to hold up Vet on purpose.
Don`t russel the hamster!

basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Andres125sx wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:37
basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:22
The FI is a really good car, not on par with the top 3 but clearly the Nr 4.
And Perez is 7th in the WDC so, what are you trying to say mate? Perez is at the highest position he can dream about, and has finished over that anytime any top driver had some problem, like his 4th in Spain

Really, what are you expecting from Perez?
Not screwing up in Q for example. Can you imagine the media in Italy with him sitting in a Ferrari and falling out of Q1 or Q2 due to bad driving?
As usual the points are not telling everything...you need to look at the singular events.
Andres125sx wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:37
basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:22
Yes and no. We have seen it with Perez: Went to McLaren and lost the cockpit after one year. Pure luck that FI took him back
Pure luck???

So you think F1 teams make their decisions based on luck or some arbitrary parameter? :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: #-o

Be serious man, Perez is on that seat because he´s a VERY good driver, and teams do know
So why did they put Ocon into the car? We have too much paydrivers and works backed rookies. Could be also a paydriver in the car, the financial situation of FI should not be much better than the one from Williams.
Andres125sx wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:37
basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:22
The same will happen with Sainz
I find it amazing how people like you who can see the future don´t use that awesome power to predict euromillions numbers, or some terrorist attack to prevent it. What are you doing here in F1T? You should be working for CIA, OTAN or something similar... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Did you miss the IF by accident or on purpose? :mrgreen: =D>
Don`t russel the hamster!

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Big Mangalhit
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Joined: 03 Dec 2015, 15:39

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Perez wouldn't fall off in Q1 or Q2 that easily with this year Ferrari has he would with a car that in some tracks is just about topish of midfield. Also in 2014 was the fourth best car and Alonso was out of Q3 one time and Kimi was out of Q3 6 times!!!! Still he is there 3 years later.

Perez is performing really really good lately shame what happened this rece I was truly gutted he broke is going point run

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Perez rammed Kvyat right?

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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:51
Andres125sx wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:37
basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:22
The FI is a really good car, not on par with the top 3 but clearly the Nr 4.
And Perez is 7th in the WDC so, what are you trying to say mate? Perez is at the highest position he can dream about, and has finished over that anytime any top driver had some problem, like his 4th in Spain

Really, what are you expecting from Perez?
Not screwing up in Q for example. Can you imagine the media in Italy with him sitting in a Ferrari and falling out of Q1 or Q2 due to bad driving?
When did that happen?

basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:51
So why did they put Ocon into the car? We have too much paydrivers and works backed rookies. Could be also a paydriver in the car, the financial situation of FI should not be much better than the one from Williams.
So paydrivers are good or bad? I can´t get what you mean...

Teams usually use one paydriver and one driver with talent, and that´s what FI is doing

basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:51
Did you miss the IF by accident or on purpose? :mrgreen: =D>
On purpose, as it does not change the fact you´re trying to predict future...
basti313 wrote:
basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:22
We have seen it with Perez: Went to McLaren and lost the cockpit after one year. Pure luck that FI took him back, could have been a Maldonado end of career. The same will happen with Sainz if he does not get to pace in the first year and Gio is on the door.
How do you know if Ferrari will have enough patience with him or not? They´re showing loads of patience with Kimi, despite his very high salary, so I don´t see any reason to assume a less experienced driver with a fraction of that salary will have to perform better than he´s doing... Or you think Perez Qs are poor but Kimi is performing great?

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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basti313 wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:43
No evidence. Just the point, that he was massively pulling away from Vettel on the main straight for 2-3? laps. In the last (overtake) lap the gap was already closing before the start/finish line. As Bot always had a quite clean exit it comes down to power. Furthermore you do not see him lifting when Ham passed. This shows the massive DRS effect.
I think the conclusion is too difficult, given we are talking about two different cars with different engine and thus also different engine characteristics. I am of the belief the Mercedes PU still is the most powerful one. What you we were seeing might just be an effect of that.

Also; two cars with identical acceleration - the car earlier on the throttle will always pull away from the one behind.
Phil wrote:
01 Jun 2017, 11:07
Too optimistic for me. Ham could not match Vet soft times. Bot falling into 29s is not a good strategy, no matter how you put it. It was just possible because RedBull was so slow and Rai was out.
I don't think it was optimistic at all. Vettel got by because he managed to push through on the inside. If Bottas had blocked the inside more aggressively, Vettel would have had to try his luck on the outside, like the lap before. Assume Bottas miraculously defending his position against Vettel for 5-6 laps. Then pit to mediums. The question then would become if Vettel could pull a gap of a pitstop to come out ahead. If he failed to do so, he would later be faced of attempting the same passes on identical tires (medium against old mediums for Bottas).

All facts considered and in hindsight, I don't think Bottas would have succeeded to be fair, but during the race, you'd be damned not to try. And the main point about "sacrifices" is that putting Bottas on the normal 2-stop would have brought no gain at all. With no risk from behind (to a point), it would have been a no-brainer.

And as for risking the engine: You never know when you crossed the limit till you do. Point being; in hindsight, yes they might have pushed too far, or maybe it would have made squat difference and the engine [turbo] would have blown either way.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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ChrisDanger
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Joined: 30 Mar 2011, 09:59

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Selected team radio messages on f1fanatic: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/06/02/2 ... ranscript/

i70q7m7ghw
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 00:27
Location: ...

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Can someone clarify, were there any overtakes on track that didn't result in a crash? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, and as a result, does Monaco have a place in modern F1? It's purely an "event" these days rather than a true race.

Maybe they should change the format, run Monaco as a non-championship race and have several sprint races etc. They need to do something that's for sure, it stood out as a very boring race in what's been a very exciting season so far.

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F1NAC
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Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Diesel wrote:
03 Jun 2017, 23:24
Can someone clarify, were there any overtakes on track that didn't result in a crash? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, and as a result, does Monaco have a place in modern F1? It's purely an "event" these days rather than a true race.

Maybe they should change the format, run Monaco as a non-championship race and have several sprint races etc. They need to do something that's for sure, it stood out as a very boring race in what's been a very exciting season so far.
Perez passed stroll i think in rascasse

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22
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Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Overtakes or not, i am a sucker for Monaco and love it. It's one of the highlights for me...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

komninosm
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Joined: 05 Apr 2009, 18:41
Location: Macedonia

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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CriXus wrote:
29 May 2017, 16:27
For the people asking about lap times, here is the link. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/05/28/2 ... test-laps/
Thanks this just proves that people saying GRO was catching HAM was nonsense. HAM should have delayed pitstop to lap 70 and hoped for a safety car.

komninosm
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Joined: 05 Apr 2009, 18:41
Location: Macedonia

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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F1NAC wrote:
03 Jun 2017, 23:34
Perez passed stroll i think in rascasse
I can't find any footage of this :?:

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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komninosm wrote:
05 Jun 2017, 11:38
F1NAC wrote:
03 Jun 2017, 23:34
Perez passed stroll i think in rascasse
I can't find any footage of this :?:
https://twitter.com/AlertaF1/status/870395067936129024

henra
53
Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 19:34

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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Diesel wrote:
03 Jun 2017, 23:24
Maybe they should change the format, run Monaco as a non-championship race and have several sprint races etc. They need to do something that's for sure, it stood out as a very boring race in what's been a very exciting season so far.
Even though you possibly didn't like the result this year but if you look at the result from the F1 Spectator/Fan Survey you will see that it is still considered the most important race of the season.
So: No (and I really mean No - like: Null, Nada, Niente) chance for Monaco to be dropped off the F1 calendar. It will be literally the last race to be skipped.

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: 2017 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, 26-28 May

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- What :shock: , how can you not be excited about the race with close battle for the win and purest competition of Ferrari garages with Vettel remarkably ending up in front? It's not like driver's strategies are decided by the same people and connected.

- Monaco can be fun to watch in P3, Q, this year it wasn't because of lack of competition and low quality = only one driver out of the top six nailed a great lap. Rest of the grid, the same, 1/3 shouldn't be in F1 at all, 1/3 should be in different cars, including most of the top ones.

- Old-school purists complaining about anything (usually tyres and pushing 100%) missed also how changes to the most tricky section (swimming pool) made it easier here. Perhaps high downforce/grip cars as well, although that's secondary.

- Lack of overtaking is not a problem and expected, especially with '17 tyres/cars. At least they were pushing 100%, BTW is strat whatever (Bottas radio) pushing 100% or not? Cause or effect ;-)?

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