2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

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daniellammers
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by daniellammers » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:41 am

TAG wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:38 am
Don't forget different transmissions with a fixed set of gearing for the season.
You're allowed one change
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TAG
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by TAG » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:49 am

daniellammers wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:41 am
TAG wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:38 am
Don't forget different transmissions with a fixed set of gearing for the season.
You're allowed one change
In the context of Silverstone here.
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Phil
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Phil » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:02 pm

And set up too. Car A being "flat out" by a function of gearing, power, grip, load etc at lets say 300kmh will not be necessarely equal to Car A with a different gearing, thus at a different rev point within the same corner at the same speed. That was my point.

The other point is that if you alter the circumstance, for example by having a car that allows you to go faster through that same corner (power wise), you will have very different variables, like load/force and compression.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by godlameroso » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:54 pm

I asked about turn 11, it's never been flat in any car ever. The entry is at around 235kph and if taken perfectly the car has an exit speed (after the apex)of around 250kph. There is no chance that a car will scrub off speed in the corner.

In 2010 there was a little lift and a downshift.
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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by GPR-A duplicate2 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:13 pm

Phil wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:24 am
Juzh wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:44 am
Phil wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:26 am
Did you guys consider that perhaps some corners are flat (throttle wise), but due to the compression, the car itself at that speed no longer has the power to retain the speed despite being flat?

I.e Silverstone where Hamiltons footage shower hin shifting down a gear and taking sone corners in 7th gear instead of 8th?
Lets stay civil. Honest question here to counter this argument. Why the RB6 with a 750 bhp torqueless V8 didn't need a downshift, but somehow W08 with ~1000 bhp and massive torque does?

https://vimeo.com/198559914
Different power band, different downforce levels, different drag levels, different grip, different speed, different car (weight)?
If one observes the speed carried through that corner, it becomes apparent that, in spite of being full throttle, Vettel carried less speed (I am assuming it was around 260/270 as the graphic does not show digital speed) than Lewis did (though he went off throttle).

Image
Image

Webber did 269 in 2011.
Hamilton did 269 in 2013 (2012 and 2014 was wet).
Hamilton did 265 in 2015, but then had to slow down considerably upto 252 to get back into shape.
Hamilton did 261 in 2016.
Last edited by GPR-A duplicate2 on Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Juzh
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Juzh » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:30 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:13 pm
Phil wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:24 am
Juzh wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:44 am

Lets stay civil. Honest question here to counter this argument. Why the RB6 with a 750 bhp torqueless V8 didn't need a downshift, but somehow W08 with ~1000 bhp and massive torque does?

https://vimeo.com/198559914
Different power band, different downforce levels, different drag levels, different grip, different speed, different car (weight)?
If one observes the speed carried through that corner, it becomes apparent that, in spite of being full throttle, Vettel carried less speed (I am assuming it was around 260/270 as the graphic does not show digital speed) than Lewis did (though he went off throttle).

https://s21.postimg.org/ibfcnm38n/SILVERSTONE.png
https://i.gyazo.com/38342c752e79be31cb1 ... 305aa3.jpg
Yes, Hamilton carries more speed trough the corner even though he lifts and downshifts. It's a byproduct of having so much power. It was known before the race cars would most likely carry more speed trough there than the RB6 but will probably have to lift. In my opinion 2017 cars simply have too much power to take copse full throttle. In order to remain flat in 8th he'd need an extra ~20-25 kph mid corner speed and that's too much (for now, it could change next year).

We're seriously OT here :D

Juzh
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Juzh » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:33 pm

When RB6 has to downshift I don't see how 2017 can be full throttle.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Manoah2u » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:36 pm

Sure it can, for Mclaren-Honda :D
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basti313
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by basti313 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:41 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:36 pm
Sure it can, for Mclaren-Honda :D
Or the other way round: If they exchange the engine after a few laps, they might need to lift. :D

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:20 pm

Phil wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:26 am
Did you guys consider that perhaps some corners are flat (throttle wise), but due to the compression, the car itself at that speed no longer has the power to retain the speed despite being flat?

I.e Silverstone where Hamiltons footage shower hin shifting down a gear and taking sone corners in 7th gear instead of 8th?
No. That was the classic double turn problem; where taking the first turn too fast will compromise speed thru the second turn. In other words he could have went flat in the first turn if he wanted to, but the lap time would be slower if he did.
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by TAG » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:27 pm

What ever happened with the intra-sector timing they were playing around with in the beginning of the year? This would have been a nice circuit for it.
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by ChrisDanger » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:45 am

TAG wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:27 pm
What ever happened with the intra-sector timing they were playing around with in the beginning of the year? This would have been a nice circuit for it.
Yeah, that was really cool. Maybe they figured it was too much information for the casual viewer, and would possibly deter new ones? I mean, us data geeks, they've got us by the balls already.

What's the deal with turn 11? Not being funny, I just don't understand exactly what you're asking. Are you just wondering what the speeds will be this year?

The track map in the title post shows T10 in 6th at 250, then T11 in 5th at 210. This is from the 2016 FIA preview document, so is most probably 2015 data.

We can compare the differences in data from Silverstone between the same kind of 2016 preview document and last weekend's qualifying, shown below (most recent is last). Stowe (T15), more-or-less like Hungaroring's T11, is an isolated corner, and, like T11, was 210 in 2015. 2017 qualifying speeds through Stowe were apparently up 40 km/h to 250, so that might also be achievable for T11 this Saturday.

Perhaps someone has more accurate data, as it seems this FIA data might be heavily rounded. Or maybe it can be argued that you can't really compare T11 and Stowe. Who knows. But it gives a rough idea.

Image

Image

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:54 am

Turn 11 is the fastest turn on the track, and one of the hardest to get perfect which is why I asked. Turn 4 is the second fastest, and quite tricky as well. I wonder if the FIA will enforce track limits as aggressively as last year.
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by Vasconia » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:06 pm

garyjpaterson wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:11 am
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:58 pm
No rain expected all weekend long. 2014 was dry and it was a crazy race so it's not a complete given.
Wasn't 2014 very wet indeed at the start? I remember Lewis, starting from the pitlane spinning at T2 and just touching the wall.
I have same memories, Hungary has lot of fun when its wet.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:25 pm

?? We're literally talking about the technical aspects of the Hungaroring...
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee