You talk about bias then post one of THE most biased post I have ever seen.Vanja #66 wrote: ↑05 Oct 2017, 18:47I've watched that video of course, though muted, because bias against Hamilton's adversary was very high last year and it's insane this year (it's easier when it's not his team mate obviously) - not only by SkyF1, but also by most of the (British) motorsport media.
So when you watch it muted and base your opinion on what you see and not what somebody else is telling you that you see, you see pretty much the same thing as was visible on Grosjean's on board - Stroll suddenly changed direction relative to the corner's line. As I posted screenshots from Seb's on board before, I'm not going to do that again as we are past the moot point, he kept his line relative to the corner at all times and hadn't moved his steering wheel as well. If somebody can present an argument that states contrary, I'd be happy to accept it - though, in all honesty, I'm pretty sure that such argument would have popped up by now.
It's a silly incident, with potentially huge consequences on championship battle, that underlines what is pretty much a trend now - younger drivers don't pay enough attention to their surroundings and FIA don't mean to do anything about it even though it is interfering with other driver's races badly (talking also about Ocon and Max here, not just Stroll). Having been their age just a few years ago, I'm starting to think they literally can't focus on so many things all the time during the weekend, as that level of focus comes with age. This is very common with motorcycle racers, in Moto3 fantastic drivers often slump in form when they stop trusting themselves and their bike - which is a consequence of loosing focus on racing when you have girlfriend issues and whatnot.
This has been my view the whole time, Vettel was behind and was in a much better position to avoid any kind of contact, Stroll just would never have expected a car to be coming across in such a way. This new video pretty much swings 100% against Vettel IMO.Restomaniac wrote: ↑05 Oct 2017, 14:14
For me it's this.
Driver A is in front and doesn't have the full picture due to him only having wing mirrors as a vantage point. That same driver is turning away from a collision.
Driver B is behind and has the full picture in front of him. That same driver is turning into a collision.
Very hard to blame driver A in that situation.
You confirm that Stroll kept a constant radius turn. You also confirm that Vettel turned sharply to the left. I agree with both those positions. However, where I think the 'argument' might be is that some (many?) people do not agree with your firm belief that it is everyone else's responsibility to get out of Vettel's way. First Hamilton in Baku, then Verstappen and Kimi in Singapore (although that is far less clear cut) and now Stroll.
What kind of dishonest circumlocution is this? The corner's wahh?...Vanja #66 wrote: ↑05 Oct 2017, 18:47Stroll suddenly changed direction relative to the corner's line. As I posted screenshots from Seb's on board before, I'm not going to do that again as we are past the moot point, he kept his line relative to the corner at all times and hadn't moved his steering wheel as well. If somebody can present an argument that states contrary, I'd be happy to accept it - though, in all honesty, I'm pretty sure that such argument would have popped up by now.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - even when it flies in the face of the evidence https://www.tfes.org
Ok... i'll bite that.banjo789 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 13:08Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - even when it flies in the face of the evidence https://www.tfes.org
The only way Stroll was going to be at fault is if he was weaving from side to side or made a sudden direction change. Neither of which occured.
Stroll's steering input doesn't change though and the wheel angle stays the same. There is no deliberate act to widen the gap towards the right by steering that way.santos wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 14:52Ok... i'll bite that.banjo789 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 13:08Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - even when it flies in the face of the evidence https://www.tfes.org
The only way Stroll was going to be at fault is if he was weaving from side to side or made a sudden direction change. Neither of which occured.
I'm not saying that Stroll was the only one at fault. Vettel should be more careful when passing him.
I'm just looking at the vídeo, and you can clearly see Stroll widen the trajectory to the right.
https://youtu.be/Q9KxFa_R0Dw?t=40sRestomaniac wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 15:30Stroll's steering input doesn't change though and the wheel angle stays the same. There is no deliberate act to widen the gap towards the right by steering that way.santos wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 14:52Ok... i'll bite that.banjo789 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 13:08
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - even when it flies in the face of the evidence https://www.tfes.org
The only way Stroll was going to be at fault is if he was weaving from side to side or made a sudden direction change. Neither of which occured.
I'm not saying that Stroll was the only one at fault. Vettel should be more careful when passing him.
I'm just looking at the vídeo, and you can clearly see Stroll widen the trajectory to the right.
He is looking at the Hass behind him to his left. When he spots Vettel (In his mirrors) he inputs more to the left to try and avoid the collision.
Vettel has a full view of everything in front of him. Yet decides he wants to be over on the left when he has 2/3 of the empty track to go at.
Stroll is in the big white thing in front of him and what does he do? Watches and steers his car closer and closer until he makes contact.
With all that info how anyone can now lay the blame at Stroll is beyond me. 1 guy had all the info and a full view of everything unfolding and did nothing about it.
That driver wasn't Stroll.