2017 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 6-8 October

[DiogoBrand]

You guys got it all wrong. Of course it was expected that Mercedes trip over themselves with the guy starting from pole on a S-SS strategy be held up by their other driver on a completely different strategy (S-SS) racing a completely different race...

Thank you! What does people expect Mercedes to do? Let the guy on Softs that started 7th hold up the one fighting for the lead and give Verstappen a chance to overtake? I mean, even when Hamilton and Rosberg were fighting for the title, Rosberg still had to let Lewis past when he was holding him up at Monaco. That's not "Number one/number two driver", that's simply "Not making stupid things and give away wins".

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Bottas is not just a second driver anymore. He's officially now the donkey/bitch (sorry for the terms, but that's the sad reality) of the team. He's been used repetidely to hold others for Hamilton while not been allowed to race the first driver and almost stopping the car to let him go (and all that with Vettel out of the championship!!!)

I think that's just sour grapes over what had been said about Raikkonen. Mercedes couldn't have possibly risked first place just to give Bottas a shot at third. That would be just dumb. Hamilton's tires hurt a lot, for more than a couple laps behind Bottas, and the team were courteous enough towards him by not asking him to move over immediately, unlike Ferrari (would, faced with the similar).

Exactly, no team would ever do this. When the Sky team asked Verstappen about it he was 100% clear that it was not wrong, it was sensible and that he would have blocked him much worse in that situation. Not switching them would be insane.

There is a huge difference between "Alonso is faster than you" and switching positions on two people on the same strategy who are genuinely fighting and they just give the position to one driver. Bottas was very clearly a full pitstop behind, no team would ever compromise the driver ahead in this situation. Ferrari and most other teams would have pit Bottas earlier or moved him over 3-4 laps earlier than they did and would have kept Bottas out an extra 5 laps slowing Verstappen. Mercedes moved over Bottas ridiculously slowly, hurt Hamilton fairly badly and were extremely kind to Verstappen in pitting Bottas as quickly as they did after he let Hamilton through.

I am amazed that people still talk about suspicious disparity in Mercedes' treatment of their drivers, even after what happened in Hungary. For starters, when Schumacher was out of contention in 1999, he did play a good No.2 role, coming back from break. For as long as Bottas was in contention for championship, he got all the right treatment. That exact treatment, potentially cost a race win in Bahrain, which was not an issue at all for Mercedes. Now it's him to play the good team mate, like Schumacher did being out of championship contention.

Outside of the competitive machinery part, ask any top driver on the grid, which team would they prefer to join, Ferrari or Mercedes, while Mercedes have Lewis and Ferrari have Vettel? The answer would tell you the reality.

[notsofast]

If they manage to secure the championship, then I think they should swap PU for the last race. Just get a new one, open it up fully and drive the thing to bits in one race.

I got a feeling that despite the penalties it would be a very humbling experience for the other teams.

I would like to see that. But they wouldn't need a new PU. Drive one of the current PUs to bits. Just hope it lasts long enough to lap the entire field before it gives up.

[WaikeCU]

I think that's just sour grapes over what had been said about Raikkonen. Mercedes couldn't have possibly risked first place just to give Bottas a shot at third. That would be just dumb. Hamilton's tires hurt a lot, for more than a couple laps behind Bottas, and the team were courteous enough towards him by not asking him to move over immediately, unlike Ferrari (would, faced with the similar).

Exactly, no team would ever do this. When the Sky team asked Verstappen about it he was 100% clear that it was not wrong, it was sensible and that he would have blocked him much worse in that situation. Not switching them would be insane.

There is a huge difference between "Alonso is faster than you" and switching positions on two people on the same strategy who are genuinely fighting and they just give the position to one driver. Bottas was very clearly a full pitstop behind, no team would ever compromise the driver ahead in this situation. Ferrari and most other teams would have pit Bottas earlier or moved him over 3-4 laps earlier than they did and would have kept Bottas out an extra 5 laps slowing Verstappen. Mercedes moved over Bottas ridiculously slowly, hurt Hamilton fairly badly and were extremely kind to Verstappen in pitting Bottas as quickly as they did after he let Hamilton through.

I am amazed that people still talk about suspicious disparity in Mercedes' treatment of their drivers, even after what happened in Hungary. For starters, when Schumacher was out of contention in 1999, he did play a good No.2 role, coming back from break. For as long as Bottas was in contention for championship, he got all the right treatment. That exact treatment, potentially cost a race win in Bahrain, which was not an issue at all for Mercedes. Now it's him to play the good team mate, like Schumacher did being out of championship contention.

Outside of the competitive machinery part, ask any top driver on the grid, which team would they prefer to join, Ferrari or Mercedes, while Mercedes have Lewis and Ferrari have Vettel? The answer would tell you the reality.

Ah music to my ears. I could remember this like it was yesterday. Sublime teamplay!

[sosic2121]

Similar, but different in one very very very important way. Vettel wasn't along side him.

In singapore, two people were along side Vettel.

One very important difference - in Japan two cars came out of it intact, in Singapore, three cars were wrecked.

Ahh yes, max factor.
*4 cars

[NathanOlder]

If they manage to secure the championship, then I think they should swap PU for the last race. Just get a new one, open it up fully and drive the thing to bits in one race.

I got a feeling that despite the penalties it would be a very humbling experience for the other teams.

I would like to see that. But they wouldn't need a new PU. Drive one of the current PUs to bits. Just hope it lasts long enough to lap the entire field before it gives up.

If they run it that hard they would probably run out of fuel with 10 to go!

[Sieper]

And oil.

[Jordan44]

If they manage to secure the championship, then I think they should swap PU for the last race. Just get a new one, open it up fully and drive the thing to bits in one race.

I got a feeling that despite the penalties it would be a very humbling experience for the other teams.

Great for the fans.. but I'm not sure how they could justify the cost of building a PU just for one race to the Daimler board

?? They have spare PUs in case that some break down. They will merely be using stock which will not be used anyway next year.

Besides, producing the PU is not all that costly. The real costs lie in the development

Any spares they have will be used on the dyno for winter development. Destroying one for absolutely no reason at all is just silly.

If you look at what the teams are rumoured to be paying per season for these power units, then it is almost certainly in the millions of dollars to build them.

[Restomaniac]

Is it right that Hamilton had a spark plug issue himself after qualifying?

[SiLo]

Yeah it was replaced under supervision from the FIA. It's one of the many things that teams are allowed to replaced with a like for like part in parc ferme.

[Restomaniac]

Yeah it was replaced under supervision from the FIA. It's one of the many things that teams are allowed to replaced with a like for like part in parc ferme.

It surely asks the question then.
How can Mercedes spot their spark plug issues yet Ferrari didn't? AFAIK the engines are not used between qualifying and setup on race morning.

[Jolle]

Yeah it was replaced under supervision from the FIA. It's one of the many things that teams are allowed to replaced with a like for like part in parc ferme.

It surely asks the question then.
How can Mercedes spot their spark plug issues yet Ferrari didn't? AFAIK the engines are not used between qualifying and setup on race morning.

On the fia homepage there is a list before every GP what every team replaced during Parc Ferme. The lists are sometimes unexpectedly long. Ferrari, in the last few seasons, have changed sparkplugs on a very regular basis on all their PU's (own team and customers).

There is nothing "secret" or whatever about it. You'll just see it in the data if you might have a problem with a plug or not. Or, just a visual one, after their last run in Q, the cars of course get a full inspection. Spark plugs and burn chambers are one of the inspected ereas. The term Parc Ferme isn't the right one anymore, team keep the cars themselves and are allowed to service them in some extend. Maybe something like "Garage Supervision" is a better term.

[oT v1]

Perhaps it wasn't a spark plug issue and Ferrari just wanted to shift blame?!? DC noticed the red 'harvesting' light was going off way more than usual on Vettel's car. And why would Vettel stay in the car so long (and the team work around the car) in the garage if the team knew it was game over? :s

[Phil]

Maybe the failings of spark plugs on a more regular basis, especially after qualifying, could be related to excessive oil burning?

[Jolle]

Perhaps it wasn't a spark plug issue and Ferrari just wanted to shift blame?!? DC noticed the red 'harvesting' light was going off way more than usual on Vettel's car. And why would Vettel stay in the car so long (and the team work around the car) in the garage if the team knew it was game over? :s

Or, there was a problem that fried the spark plug... or looked like that it might be the sparkplug (like a lower temp in that cylinder) etc etc. faulty injector... software glitch, faulty seal, etc etc etc... the spark plugs are one of the few items you can change quickly and without any problems. But faulty spark plugs (or a wet one) usually comes from another problem.