2017 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 10-12 November

[digitalrurouni]

Praying for Vettel not playing bumper cars with other drivers. Come on Hamilton another pole and win! Let's see those records tumble!

[TAG]

I'm so nervous, I hope Hamilton keeps his fourth world championship in this race.

[drunkf1fan]

And an extra bonus is, Hamilton, Vettel and Verstappen all have nothing to lose because the championship has been dealt with so the fight for victory can be much much much harder then ever before... "Wishfull thinking"

The big bad boys would return to bully the kid. This time, the kid would not have it easy as the bad boys would not leave an inch to the kid. They would be ready to crash him out, rather than leaving any space for the kid. I am fully expecting Lewis and Vettel to dive down (even a dive bomb) the inside OR force Verstappen out if there is an opportunity. Just to give a lesson in racing! It would be fun two races ahead.

Vettel was already driving as if he had nothing to lose otherwise he wouldn't have been in so many accidents. Hamilton is a consistently very fair driver, he won't dive bomb of hit Verstappen just because there might be an opportunity, nor is bad driving teaching anyone a lesson. Regardless of the wheel to wheel action and if sometimes they went less hard than they otherwise would, the reason Hamilton let Verstappen by fairly easily in Malaysia was simply that his engine was derating and Verstappen was faster, not solely because he thought there could be an accident. Verstappen had the faster car so fighting insanely hard had no worth.

Verstappen's pace outside of said wheel to wheel action has been phenomenal. Unless vettel and Hamilton were not only avoiding wheel to wheel action but also avoiding being fast then they won't suddenly have vastly improved pace compared to, then they aren't suddenly going to be much more competitive because the championship is over.

As for Mexico, Hamilton could have stayed back in 3rd doing nothing, he said so before and after the race, he wasn't wanting to just cruise to a title and taking positions only if it's easy, he went into that race to fight and fight he did. The idea that Verstappen has had it easy because the other two are in a title fight is completely absurd. He's had awesome pace because RBR had updates and Verstappen is an incredible driver, with the same car being competitive for wins while Ricciardo hasn't been, Max has been the difference.

I'd potentially even say that Verstappen is now favourite for me to win the last two races, with likely the fastest race pace of anyone or any car right now. Qualifying that car still lacks some ultimate performance and reliability is still a huge problem though.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I'd potentially even say that Verstappen is now favourite for me to win the last two races, with likely the fastest race pace of anyone or any car right now. Qualifying that car still lacks some ultimate performance and reliability is still a huge problem though.

How do you explain this? Because for me, having been using a PU introduced 6 races ago, is not the same as the one that was introduced a race before Mexico. If Mercedes doesn't want to take penalty, it means, they would be using a PU which would be potentially doing 8th race (which might not be the case as Mercedes would have used Spec 2 or 3 at some races post Spa, which again tells a story that RB was using a much fresher engine in some of the previous races and hence were closer). Red Bull doesn't have any such headaches as for them, it's just about gaining as much as they can. Different situations between teams, so it is not what is visible to the naked eye with respect to overall performance. While RB was fast in Malaysia, they were a full second away in qualifying at Suzuka and it would be foolish to believe that, they were closer to Mercedes in race, as it only takes a basic sense to understand that Lewis was running at the most conservative that he can, while Verstappen was running the most aggressive that he can. Anyone can easily tell that, the full second difference in Suzuka can't be attributed to lack of engine power for Renault in qualifying. The absolute performance of a car is in qualifying and in Suzuka and USA (where Lewis did not even do a proper ultimate flier, but still was ahead of half a second to Verstappen), RB was nowhere near to the Merc. Races always provide abstract and obscure picture due to the varying approach, at varying stages of the race. To say RB is the better car, is just an overstatement, ignoring all the underlying factors of the championship.

[Chubbs]

Does anybody know what the fastest outright lap of the track is? (Not just fastest race lap, qualifying too)

[drunkf1fan]

I'd potentially even say that Verstappen is now favourite for me to win the last two races, with likely the fastest race pace of anyone or any car right now. Qualifying that car still lacks some ultimate performance and reliability is still a huge problem though.

How do you explain this? Because for me, having been using a PU introduced 6 races ago, is not the same as the one that was introduced a race before Mexico. If Mercedes doesn't want to take penalty, it means, they would be using a PU which would be potentially doing 8th race (which might not be the case as Mercedes would have used Spec 2 or 3 at some races post Spa, which again tells a story that RB was using a much fresher engine in some of the previous races and hence were closer). Red Bull doesn't have any such headaches as for them, it's just about gaining as much as they can. Different situations between teams, so it is not what is visible to the naked eye with respect to overall performance. While RB was fast in Malaysia, they were a full second away in qualifying at Suzuka and it would be foolish to believe that, they were closer to Mercedes in race, as it only takes a basic sense to understand that Lewis was running at the most conservative that he can, while Verstappen was running the most aggressive that he can. Anyone can easily tell that, the full second difference in Suzuka can't be attributed to lack of engine power for Renault in qualifying. The absolute performance of a car is in qualifying and in Suzuka and USA (where Lewis did not even do a proper ultimate flier, but still was ahead of half a second to Verstappen), RB was nowhere near to the Merc. Races always provide abstract and obscure picture due to the varying approach, at varying stages of the race. To say RB is the better car, is just an overstatement, ignoring all the underlying factors of the championship.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/bC_bnMX ... MbSAVw.png

A, you don't have to explain anything, they haven't done 6 races on that engine nor will they attempt to run 8. They took a new engine for strategic reasons, if they introduced new engine a race later it would have to comply with the using less oil rule. They haven't only used that engine since.

Second, qualifying and race performance aren't the same thing, being a second ahead in qualifying doesn't equate to a second ahead in the race. The fuel and engine modes used in qualifying aren't about efficiency, race engine modes are purely about efficiency. YOu have to use 105kg/race laps per lap in the race, in qualifying you could use potentially double that.

RBR were fast in Singapore, they were fast in Malaysia, they were fast in Japan, they were fast in Cota and they were fast in Mexico. Absolute performance means nothing until there is points for qualifying. Mclaren are the opposite of RBR, their engine has poor efficiency which is why their qualifying performance is above race performance, efficiency isn't much of an issue in qualifying.

Qualifying provides the abstract picture of pace. You can measure different strategies and compare pace, qualifying is a single lap, it's governed by mistakes and ultimate performance modes that can't be used in races at all.

If Merc was a second a lap faster in the race even with Bottas being slower, he'd have been comfortably second in Japan and Hamilton even cruising would have finished 10 seconds clear of RBR.

EDIT:- it's worth noting Mercedes might well take penalties now, not because they need to but if they have bits and pieces they want to use on the 2018 engine that could go into the current engine for feedback from the track then they have every reason to do that now.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

A, you don't have to explain anything, they haven't done 6 races on that engine nor will they attempt to run 8. They took a new engine for strategic reasons, if they introduced new engine a race later it would have to comply with the using less oil rule. They haven't only used that engine since.

Source?

Second, qualifying and race performance aren't the same thing, being a second ahead in qualifying doesn't equate to a second ahead in the race. The fuel and engine modes used in qualifying aren't about efficiency, race engine modes are purely about efficiency.

Very basic information and doesn't add any value to the discussion.

YOu have to use 105kg/race laps per lap in the race, in qualifying you could use potentially double that.

Who really has asked Renault NOT TO USE triple that? Is this an excuse for Renault's under performance?

RBR were fast in Singapore, they were fast in Malaysia, they were fast in Japan, they were fast in Cota and they were fast in Mexico. Absolute performance means nothing until there is points for qualifying.

Except for you, I don't think anyone is buying this. The fact is, Mercedes won the race in Singapore as much as it is a fact that RB won in Malaysia. Similarly, RB was nowhere in Suzuka or COTA. You can twist it whichever way you want to show RB was better. But for me, the fact that you are ignoring the the very circumstances under which either teams were operating, shows you want to prove just one point AND that is not wise.

If Merc was a second a lap faster in the race even with Bottas being slower, he'd have been comfortably second in Japan and Hamilton even cruising would have finished 10 seconds clear of RBR.

Two different cars' true performance comparison happens between two best efforts. Not between the best one and the worst one.

[F1NAC]

Does anybody know what the fastest outright lap of the track is? (Not just fastest race lap, qualifying too)

1:10.023 Nico Rosberg, 2014 pole position

[godlameroso]

A 1:06 is possible.

[PlatinumZealot]

Rain please.

[Cannonballer]

Rain please.

(Rain Dance)

It would be amazing to watch the drivers battle in the rain in DGAF (since the titles are decided) mode.

[Vasconia]

A very good track and an interesting race. With the old surface the wet races were spectacular, now not so much, though they are still exciting.

My bet:

1. Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Verstappen

Race:

1. Vettel
2. Ricciardo
3. Raikkonen.

Verstappen and Hamilton will collide.

[Juzh]

Does anybody know what the fastest outright lap of the track is? (Not just fastest race lap, qualifying too)

1:10.023 Nico Rosberg, 2014 pole position

1:09.822 Rubens Barrichello, 2004 Q1.

[SamH123]

If it's dry I don't think RB will be as strong as people think, engine power is important here for the run up the hill

Depends on temperature a bit but I think this is a strong track for Merc

[Shrieker]

Verstappen and Hamilton will collide.

Verstappen and Hamilton did collide actually last race. Let's not call it 'collide' and be so dramatic, since it was only a slight contact which removed a very small part of Hamilton's wing. Which unfortunately ended up causing Vettel to ram Hamilton from behind