2017 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 10-12 November

[WaikeCU]

The thing is that when you look at the accident, they were reporting about grounding, which caused the accident. Prior losing control you could see sparks flying underneath the car, meaning the floor was rubbing the asphalt. On Sunday however, Lewis was literally flying throughout the race and imho I didn't notice sparks underneath the car at that very specific turn.

So was it because Lewis running a higher rake setting? I don't think so, because if so, we would have noticed it on FP1,2 and 3.

I'm still wondering if Merc still has a legal version of the trick suspension.

[Sieper]

They have the hydraulic rear suspension (oil heats up and cools down by running it passed the transmission. RBR, Williams, Force India, Renault? and I believe Ferrari now as well use this. I guess the team that best integrates this (the warming up and cooling down of the oil most quickly/best being affected in correlation to riding on the straights or slower through turns, is the team that has "the best" performing aero. The rear end has to duck down on straights (lower angle of attack, less drag) and come up in corners again. But the system may not be active, it has to be all passive.

[digitalrurouni]

But For Sure (lets rephrase, highly likely) Hamilton would have won here hadn't he crashed out in Q1.

I agree. His crash was very weird. Brain fart?

[Restomaniac]

But For Sure (lets rephrase, highly likely) Hamilton would have won here hadn't he crashed out in Q1.

I agree. His crash was very weird. Brain fart?

I don't know. It's very strange to see the backend try and overtake the frontend in mid-corner like that.
To quote Brundle 'I bet it surprised him'. Yes IMHO I bloody bet it did. The onboard was strange as there was no over-correction or any strange steering at all. It just suddenly went bye-bye with the only possibility being that it was due to a down-shift.

[Sieper]

down shift, two little bottom outs, possibly a wind gust along that walled part of the track and maybe just to much weight of the car on a slightly wrong line, once you start loosing downforce on the rear wing (moving sideway) you are along for the ride. I have seen that catching out quite a few this season.

[Vasconia]

But For Sure (lets rephrase, highly likely) Hamilton would have won here hadn't he crashed out in Q1.

I agree. His crash was very weird. Brain fart?

I don't know. It's very strange to see the backend try and overtake the frontend in mid-corner like that.
To quote Brundle 'I bet it surprised him'. Yes IMHO I bloody bet it did. The onboard was strange as there was no over-correction or any strange steering at all. It just suddenly went bye-bye with the only possibility being that it was due to a down-shift.

He was too agressive and the tyres were cold. Those cars have more downforce but when you lose it, you simply lose it. It was a driver mistake. Like Schumacher used to say, "I only make a mistake per season, today I have already done it".

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I agree. His crash was very weird. Brain fart?

I don't know. It's very strange to see the backend try and overtake the frontend in mid-corner like that.
To quote Brundle 'I bet it surprised him'. Yes IMHO I bloody bet it did. The onboard was strange as there was no over-correction or any strange steering at all. It just suddenly went bye-bye with the only possibility being that it was due to a down-shift.

He was too agressive and the tyres were cold. Those cars have more downforce but when you lose it, you simply lose it. It was a driver mistake. Like Schumacher used to say, "I only make a mistake per season, today I have already done it".

The car was squatting while he approached the fast right hander and when the car squats on a high speed turn, it stalls the diffuser causing loss of downforce. Once that happened, he was a passenger, because the driver expects the car to behave with downforce, while taking a fast turn.

[drunkf1fan]

Hamilton sure did have a superb drive- but lets see things in perspective.

Hamilton finished also within a couple of seconds of another Mercedes..

So how worried does Ferrari really need to be? Hamilton just had a great drive and used his new PU properly instead of ‘cruising’ around as the top 3 did.

In Malaysia Vettel did the same, started from the back and drove his balls off finishing 4th, including overtaking a Mercedes.
Youtube

But take Malaysia, Hamilton finished was 12 seconds behind Verstappen, Bottas was 56 seconds down and they didn't compromise his race to hold up Vettel, to hold up Vettel pitting while in front when Vettel was on the longer use tire to start would have meant Vettel had to pass Bottas on track, they pit him later for really no reason other than they presumably worried about his tire life getting to the end as seems to be an issue for Bottas. IN Japan the gap between them got to about 27 seconds then Hamilton seemed to get held up terribly by traffic with the fairly usual those behind the leader getting held up less situation, and I think Hamilton was just saving engine and feeling fairly comfortable despite verstappen being close. He was pushing to the stops then seemed to back off a fair amount feeling Verstappen wouldn't pass him on track. He was 21 seconds down at COTA before his extra pitstop and Hamilton was straight cruising while Bottas was losing places so obviously not cruising.

Ferrari beat a guy who is very consistently 20+ seconds down in race pace on Hamilton, but they didn't manage to beat that slower Merc by much at all. If Hamilton was once again 20 seconds faster than Bottas, then Ferrari would have been 15 seconds behind him by the end. So yeah, that is suggesting that Ferrari aren't very competitive any more and what I'm saying also fits all the data really Monza. The only implication that Ferrari are fast is a pole in Singapore, but they beat Mercedes to pole in Singapore in 2015 by 1.4 seconds.... were they competitive in general race pace over the season because of that, absolutely not.

Bottas is miles off Hamilton pace, so competing with Bottas isn't a good sign at all about Ferrari's competitiveness.

[maxxer]

It all plays into the narrative though.

SKY made a huge deal about how Ferrari needed this and how it will give them confidence going into the winter. It was once again SKY climbing up Ferrari's *ss.

I'm not sure who they are trying to kid. Hamilton getting to 5.5sec of the lead and pretty much eating the rest of the field from the pitlane should have warning sirens blaring at Ferrari HQ. Are Ferrari really that naive or just the SKY mob? Remembering that the Mercedes team are still having problems with their car at times.

What happens when they don't have to build around not having trick. Or will Ferrari be allowed to torpedo their opponents car again because Ferrari didn't think of something first.

Is it SKY or just Martin Brundle , i found his commentary crap this weekend , he can't handle anything verstappen does , everything else is during the race is a racing incident before he actually even seen a replay. It seems to me also he is pissed off ferrari lost the championship, but this is just my opinion

[GrandAxe]

It really isn't possible to conclude which between the Mercedes and the Ferrari is the outright better car considering the disparity in Lewis pace compared to Bottas in the last and previous races, as well as Vettel's pace to kimi's.

If Bottas was Mercedes top driver this year, then Vettel would since have won the WDC, because there would have been no Lewis to deny him the max 25 points from the odd win.
Perhaps, if Lewis had driven a Ferrari they would have won this year. Who knows? Without swapping drivers around, it is impossible to say with absolute certainty which of both teams cars is statistically quicker.

Ferrari's Marchionne seems to imply that they have the better car; on the other hand, he might only have been trying to raise team morale.

"Without being arrogant, I think Ferrari is at the same level, if not superior to Mercedes today. Red Bull has also made progress, but I do not think they are affecting Ferrari's position in the race."

- Sergio Marchionne

http://motorsportworld.co.za/2017/10/13 ... fight-not/

[Mattchu]

The way I see it now is Mercedes is the sensible father of F1, they pretty much run the show, all the safety/medical cars are theirs, the responsibility is on them, they are the business... Ferrari are the pretty woman [or man] who does all glamorous photo shoots wearing exotic clothes, they are the glitz and glamour, more style over substance... Red Bull are the kids, a bit loud at times, do things differently, surprise along the way, create some controversy, get into many an argument over stuff and have a fun time whenever possible.

Will Ferrari get to be on top, will one of kids depose the elder to become new king of the show ... find out in next years episode of Formula 1, filmed live in various locations around the globe

p.s I`m actually looking forward to Yas Marina, I want everyone to run full beans [although i know they wont].

[turbof1]

But take Malaysia, Hamilton finished was 12 seconds behind Verstappen, Bottas was 56 seconds down and they didn't compromise his race to hold up Vettel, to hold up Vettel pitting while in front when Vettel was on the longer use tire to start would have meant Vettel had to pass Bottas on track, they pit him later for really no reason other than they presumably worried about his tire life getting to the end as seems to be an issue for Bottas. IN Japan the gap between them got to about 27 seconds then Hamilton seemed to get held up terribly by traffic with the fairly usual those behind the leader getting held up less situation, and I think Hamilton was just saving engine and feeling fairly comfortable despite verstappen being close. He was pushing to the stops then seemed to back off a fair amount feeling Verstappen wouldn't pass him on track. He was 21 seconds down at COTA before his extra pitstop and Hamilton was straight cruising while Bottas was losing places so obviously not cruising.

Ferrari beat a guy who is very consistently 20+ seconds down in race pace on Hamilton, but they didn't manage to beat that slower Merc by much at all. If Hamilton was once again 20 seconds faster than Bottas, then Ferrari would have been 15 seconds behind him by the end. So yeah, that is suggesting that Ferrari aren't very competitive any more and what I'm saying also fits all the data really Monza. The only implication that Ferrari are fast is a pole in Singapore, but they beat Mercedes to pole in Singapore in 2015 by 1.4 seconds.... were they competitive in general race pace over the season because of that, absolutely not.

Bottas is miles off Hamilton pace, so competing with Bottas isn't a good sign at all about Ferrari's competitiveness.

That does not seem all too right. You can't compare the 2 performances like that. Interlagos and Sepang are 2 completely different circuits, with an average difference of 23-24 seconds in laptime. I think it is pointless to try to compare who did the better job eventually. I'd say george-jung had the right approach: they both drove their balls off with shiny new engines. You absolutely can't get more out of that.

[Sieper]

Also, once Hamilton got stuck behind Kimi he couldn't be fast(er) anymore. Imagine if he would have been stuck behind him longer. Your starting position on the grid already determines what you can do as well.

I do think If it were Hamilton up front he would have won, But Hamilton is just an exceptionally good driver, whilst Bottas is just very good.

[Restomaniac]

Just a side note.

The SC restart had Vettel backing up the pack to the point that almost everyone had to stop on track in a far more extreme example than Baku.

I didn't hear Bottas screaming 'he brake tested me!' as Vettel did.

[Just_a_fan]

I didn't hear Bottas screaming 'he brake tested me!' as Vettel did.

Perhaps Bottas was paying attention to what the driver in front was doing...