2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 21:10
Listening to the drivers in the podium room, they all agreed that the track needs changing to enable following/overtaking.

Interesting to see Bottas and Hamilton (especially Hamilton) were hot and sweaty. Hamilton seemed particularly tired. Vettel looked like he had been for a Sunday drive to his mother's house. I guess driving around in third counting the laps is easier than attacking/defending. Quite noticeable difference in expended effort.
He looked quite dreary in the Thursday press conference too, so it could be jet lag.
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RZS10
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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I hate how smug Hulkenberg and Abiteboul were about cheating their way past Perez, they really have to introduce some form of penalty which will be worth a damn in such cases ... otherwise nothing is stopping them from just blasting past someone by leaving out some corners if they're stuck behind a slower (but fast on the straights) car and later get a worthless 5s penalty ... it's a bloody joke
Last edited by RZS10 on 27 Nov 2017, 01:19, edited 1 time in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 00:32


He looked quite dreary in the Thursday press conference too, so it could be jet lag.
No, he was lively enough and very chatty with the other two. Just obviously knackered after driving flat out for the whole race.
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Sierra117
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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Sierra117 wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 17:35
Always funny how tall Totonator is :lol:

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EDIT: ugh me dun goof'd - wanted to fix the tags but pressed quote instead of edit.
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Hammerfist
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 19:47
Juzh wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 00:22
alonso vs bottas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdJQIFNZRi8
Alonso doesn't get in to 8th gear before T1 or in the run after T1 where Bottas does both times. Both do on the long straights though. The Mercedes is just so much quicker out of the corners so Bottas needs 8th and Alonso never gets fast enough before braking to need 8th. That Honda lump is really struggling.
Actually it looks like the Mclaren is more competitive coming out of corners. If you pause at the start finish line the Mclaren is 1kph faster, which is hard to believe. Some of that is probably due to Alonso though....
Merc's advantage is really the higher speeds. That Merc power unit just pulls like a freight train. By the end of straights, they are often 14kph+ faster. Unbelievable difference.
Last edited by Hammerfist on 27 Nov 2017, 05:46, edited 1 time in total.

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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RZS10 wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 01:12
I hate how smug Hulkenberg and Abiteboul were about cheating their way past Perez, they really have to introduce some form of penalty which will be worth a damn in such cases ... otherwise nothing is stopping them from just blasting past someone by leaving out some corners if they're stuck behind a slower (but fast on the straights) car and later get a worthless 5s penalty ... it's a bloody joke
I didn't see the post race stuff, what was their take on it? The cool down lap I kinda got the impression that the team congratulated him for the move and it sounded like he was effectively saying yeah, I knew that would work (cheating and just taking the penalty later).

It's absurd, passing illegally and track position are key factors of F1, before the introduction of 5/10 second penalties you'd get a drive through and lose at the very least that one position, maybe a dozen positions if just after a safety car or something so drivers always gave the place back(almost always). The 5-10 second penalties were supposed to add a smaller option for SMALL incidents, but a drive through for passing off track on purpose is not a small incident. He went off and just floored it and had no real reason to go off track at all, certainly no reason to refuse to come back on earlier and definitely no reason to floor it. He even had a decent portion of that 5 second gap right out of that complex because of the way he exited the corner and took it pretty much full speed.

I was incredibly angry at the stewards, I was pretty disgusted by Hulk's interpretation that he was pushed off track and when the video replay finally came around it was clear he floored it and wasn't anywhere near alongside into the corner to make such a move forgivable.

Honestly for lying, trying to mislead the stewards with the lie, for the actual move itself ie flooring it over the run off and never easing off I would have given Renault a stop/go for that. Instead they beat Toro Rosso rather than getting punished. Had he simply given the place back he'd be behind Perez but with a drive through let alone a stop go he'd certainly finish below Ocon and without enough points for Renault to be TR. It feels like they planned to do this if he couldn't make up places before the first corner and they gained a championship place from cheating.

George-Jung
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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What’s the deal.. Hulkenberg got a penalty and served it.. it took them even lounger due to the rear right tyre not comming off properly.

Perez had all the chance in the world to repass Hulkenberg- but didn’t..

Great move by Renault and Hulkenberg- and they had like 6milion reasons to do it.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 17:34
komninosm wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 17:02
And we officially have a deserving reigning F1 champion again. Good times.
Bottas had good strategy. Hamilton quite poor.
Bottas pitted when Hamilton had to clear a back-marker and couldn't make up time.
Hamilton pitted too early or too late. And then pressed too early and used up his tires. Also Bottas doesn't get bored driving at first place. It's the only thing that seems to motivate him. Hamilton had no pressure from Vettel, he should have pitted half a dozen laps later and caught up Bottas only in the end for one big effort. Attacking several times just ruins tires. So does staying less than 2 seconds behind. Different strategy of pits and driving would have given him a slim chance at least.
Yeah i felt he should have pitted much later. Lewis revealed after the race that the overtaking delta is 1.4 seconds so he really had no chance of overtaking Bottas without a mistake. The dirty air effect is also big in Abu dhabi.. You can't get closer than 1.2 seconds with equal tyres.
Alonso and Sainz were closer during several laps so its posible. I guess Mercedes suffers more being behind another car, at least in this track. Morevoer, I think Lewis didnt try too hard to overtake Bottas, there was a moment where he was only 0,6 secons behind and he didnt make a try to overtake him. He was more conservative than usual mainly because he was not unhappy to see Bottas winning. Anyway, Valteri had a great dice and he drove fantasticaly. A deserved victory, for sure.

It was a dull race, not the best ending for a reasonably good season. Ferrari was clearly behind, which was underwhelming. RB was once again behind, this is their real position as I said in Brazil. Renault needs to do an extra work.

Renault got what they wanted though Hulkenberg´s move gave him a devatable advantage. Poor Carlos, he was doing a good race but..

Ennis
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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George-Jung wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 08:48
What’s the deal.. Hulkenberg got a penalty and served it.. it took them even lounger due to the rear right tyre not comming off properly.

Perez had all the chance in the world to repass Hulkenberg- but didn’t..

Great move by Renault and Hulkenberg- and they had like 6milion reasons to do it.
The stewards got it wrong is the issue. He should have been told to hand back the position. If he refused to do so, he should have been given a penalty which meant he handed back the position & some...

I don't blame Renault or Hulk, I blame the stewarding.

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Sierra117
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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drunkf1fan wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 05:45
RZS10 wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 01:12
I hate how smug Hulkenberg and Abiteboul were about cheating their way past Perez, they really have to introduce some form of penalty which will be worth a damn in such cases ... otherwise nothing is stopping them from just blasting past someone by leaving out some corners if they're stuck behind a slower (but fast on the straights) car and later get a worthless 5s penalty ... it's a bloody joke
I didn't see the post race stuff, what was their take on it? The cool down lap I kinda got the impression that the team congratulated him for the move and it sounded like he was effectively saying yeah, I knew that would work (cheating and just taking the penalty later).

It's absurd, passing illegally and track position are key factors of F1, before the introduction of 5/10 second penalties you'd get a drive through and lose at the very least that one position, maybe a dozen positions if just after a safety car or something so drivers always gave the place back(almost always). The 5-10 second penalties were supposed to add a smaller option for SMALL incidents, but a drive through for passing off track on purpose is not a small incident. He went off and just floored it and had no real reason to go off track at all, certainly no reason to refuse to come back on earlier and definitely no reason to floor it. He even had a decent portion of that 5 second gap right out of that complex because of the way he exited the corner and took it pretty much full speed.

I was incredibly angry at the stewards, I was pretty disgusted by Hulk's interpretation that he was pushed off track and when the video replay finally came around it was clear he floored it and wasn't anywhere near alongside into the corner to make such a move forgivable.

Honestly for lying, trying to mislead the stewards with the lie, for the actual move itself ie flooring it over the run off and never easing off I would have given Renault a stop/go for that. Instead they beat Toro Rosso rather than getting punished. Had he simply given the place back he'd be behind Perez but with a drive through let alone a stop go he'd certainly finish below Ocon and without enough points for Renault to be TR. It feels like they planned to do this if he couldn't make up places before the first corner and they gained a championship place from cheating.
I saw all the post-race stuff and they were pretty much unanimous in it being a horrible decision. Hulk should have simply been made to give the position back.

If I were in that car and I did that I'd be pretty ashamed of myself. The only saving grace is the pitstop tyre not coming on properly, costing extra time, which gives it some leverage that it balanced out the bad decision, but still, I would have given Perez that position back. In any case, Hulk had the faster car and would have overtook Perez easily.

---
Also, in Ted's Notebook, Ted asked the track designer about all the complaints that the track should be changed. He said they had plans anyway to modify it, but the fact of the matter is, and I believe he's right, that the faster cars were already quite quickly ahead of the slower cars. So what can anybody do about that? If anything, people should be asking the track to be narrower or full of 90* turns to nullify all PU advantages and/or discourage faster cars from overtaking slower cars due to said narrowing.

Then again I'm one of the minority who enjoys the V6s, turbos, all the crazy complex tech and the lower-revving engines, so I doubt anybody would agree with me lol.
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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Well haha, the Hulkenberg penalty was a bit of a farce.. Good race from Wehrlein(!), Alonso as usual and Bottas.

I have enjoyed this season overall but seriously what an amazingly boring race... zero overtaking with the exception of a couple of fights between Saubers, Haas' and Stroll (what an abysmal performance yet again).. I literally fell asleep after I saw an onboard of VER showing how much RAI was conserving fuel while keeping a 1.5 sec gap and I was happy to read RAI almost fell asleep as well. This engine/downforce combination is just horrendous on circuits like this, really. It all feels so scripted.

It's either this or that, or get these tracks off the calendar because the power units can't cope under the rules, or lift the silly fuel flow restrictions. More importantly now that the wide cars are becoming more sophisticated the last couple of races, it seems to have become very problematic to follow another car up closely.. I don't hope this trend will not make the 2018 season the most frustrating one yet.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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Ennis wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 10:46
George-Jung wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 08:48
What’s the deal.. Hulkenberg got a penalty and served it.. it took them even lounger due to the rear right tyre not comming off properly.

Perez had all the chance in the world to repass Hulkenberg- but didn’t..

Great move by Renault and Hulkenberg- and they had like 6milion reasons to do it.
The stewards got it wrong is the issue. He should have been told to hand back the position. If he refused to do so, he should have been given a penalty which meant he handed back the position & some...

I don't blame Renault or Hulk, I blame the stewarding.
Yeah, the stewards again are a bunch of cowboys! If Hulk gave the position back, he would probably not been able to pass the Force India, Lap 1 was his only chance, so Force India were hard done by!
Stewards all need sacking, and get a group of new ones together who go to every race, and if they make bad calls they know they will be sacked.

The stewards are consistent, consistently wrong!
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 17:14
Ennis wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 10:46
George-Jung wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 08:48
What’s the deal.. Hulkenberg got a penalty and served it.. it took them even lounger due to the rear right tyre not comming off properly.

Perez had all the chance in the world to repass Hulkenberg- but didn’t..

Great move by Renault and Hulkenberg- and they had like 6milion reasons to do it.
The stewards got it wrong is the issue. He should have been told to hand back the position. If he refused to do so, he should have been given a penalty which meant he handed back the position & some...

I don't blame Renault or Hulk, I blame the stewarding.
Yeah, the stewards again are a bunch of cowboys! If Hulk gave the position back, he would probably not been able to pass the Force India, Lap 1 was his only chance, so Force India were hard done by!
Stewards all need sacking, and get a group of new ones together who go to every race, and if they make bad calls they know they will be sacked.

The stewards are consistent, consistently wrong!
The thing is. They are consistent in that they gave Verstappen the same penalty (I didn't agree with that penalty but still). However as this was on the first lap it needed to be dealt with differently as in this case there was plenty of time to ask Hulk to just give it back. In fact he was close enough right up to the pit stops for that order to be given.

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Artur Craft
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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RZS10 wrote:
27 Nov 2017, 01:12
I hate how smug Hulkenberg and Abiteboul were about cheating their way past Perez, they really have to introduce some form of penalty which will be worth a damn in such cases ... otherwise nothing is stopping them from just blasting past someone by leaving out some corners if they're stuck behind a slower (but fast on the straights) car and later get a worthless 5s penalty ... it's a bloody joke
completely agree with you and drunkf1fan. Vettel was just a hot-headed guy when he slightly contacted with Lewis, on Baku, and that didn't deserve much (maybe a mere warning would be fine. Stop/go would be already harsh and asking for ban was just daft fanboyism that I couldn't care less about). Here it's a completely different story. Hulk was malicious, he did it on purpose in order to gain an advantage. He probably factored in the 5s penalty(something that should be used on lighter, more inconsequent, cases, as Vettel on Baku) and thought it would be benefitial to do that instead of losing way more time behind a Mercedes powered car

I also agree that the stewards should have justified their existence and told him to give back the position as soon as he did that instead of waiting to apply a punishment. It just goes to show that they didn't learn from Spa 2009 where if the stewards had done their job(and told him to give back the position again, but this time properly), it would have prevented all the crybabying from Hamilton fanboys

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dmjunqueira
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Re: 2017 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, 24-26 November

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Fulcrum wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 17:28
Schuttelberg wrote:
26 Nov 2017, 17:25
Liberty media are trying to add more races to F1. They'd do just fine if they subtract tracks like Abu Dhabi.
I agree with you.

Unfortunately Liberty Media love money as much as Bernie did, so that seems unlikely while the emirs are willing to pay.
Since they have so much money, why don't they demolish this ridiculous Tilkodrome and build a proper F1 track on top of it?

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