2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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Sieper
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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Agree 100% with you TAG, that it took this long for someone to post it. But I think that most (or some here) interpret anything you say involving Hammy as either hate or love. It was very obvious to me that Merc (both Bottas and Ham knew what they were going to do in case Vettel had a great start and went to the inside at turn 1) discussed this scenario up front. You could clearly see them boxing in Vet, Hammy just holding him up a bit, and Bottas (after being mostly passed) coming back alongside again.

It was the race defining move as Vettel was desperate to still get by (to hope to challenge Hamilton for the Victory) and slid into Bottas taking them both out (more or less, they were not fully out yet of course).

What was interesting to me is that I think Verstappen already hoped for this scenario as well (and due to his comparatively slow start was able to see it happen instead of being amidst the trouble) and went for the escape route quickly to comfortably slide in behind Hamilton (whilst Ricciardo as he was 1 Position down at the start was on the inside and came under attack (and lost a position) to Sainz who was starting on Ultras as well (like Vettel). Had Ricci not lost time to get back passed Sainz again he would have (I think due to his much higher rear wing setting (and likely front wing as well affording him better grip with the full fuel load as Max with the much lower wing settings)) been in a position to Attack Verstappen as his first stint was quicker.

All the direct result of the boxing in move by Merc.

If the rest of the carnage (further down the field) would have happened the same way without this touch between Vettel and Bottas is hard to say, likely not. But indeed, this simply was the race defining move, that is what the importance of qualifying is, if 2 team members are next to eachother they have so much power.

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dans79
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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Sieper wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 15:49
Agree 100% with you TAG, that it took this long for someone to post it.
It was posted way earlier, I know because i mentioned it, as did others. However it was lost in the post race thread spam we usually get form members who only post in race threads to antagonize others.
Sieper wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 15:49
It was the race defining move as Vettel was desperate to still get by (to hope to challenge Hamilton for the Victory) and slid into Bottas taking them both out (more or less, they were not fully out yet of course).
In a way, Vettel kind of has himself to blame for this. over the last few seasons he has shown that he has a tendency to make bad decision in desperate/tense situations and now others are taking advantage of that.
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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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dans79 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:30
In a way, Vettel kind of has himself to blame for this. over the last few seasons he has shown that he has a tendency to make bad decision in desperate/tense situations and now others are taking advantage of that.
I have requested @FrukostScones to open another thread, like the one he had opened, "Lost motivation: HAM." after seeing Hamilton perform poorly in Monaco and Canada. I have also suggested the name like, "Lost his Mind: VET" and I guess it sounds OK too. Any good names are welcome. Knowing @FrukostScones, who is not a fan of either HAM or VET and neither hater of HAM or VET, should be able to open that one quickly and we all can move over there to discuss what Vettel's problems have been.

In the meantime, I have a feeling that Vettel was overthinking about how Germany is going to qualify for the next rounds in the World Cup and boom, Bottas came right in front of him.

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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GPR-A wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:40
dans79 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:30
In a way, Vettel kind of has himself to blame for this. over the last few seasons he has shown that he has a tendency to make bad decision in desperate/tense situations and now others are taking advantage of that.
I have requested @FrukostScones to open another thread, like the one he had opened, "Lost motivation: HAM." after seeing Hamilton perform poorly in Monaco and Canada. I have also suggested the name like, "Lost his Mind: VET" and I guess it sounds OK too. Any good names are welcome. Knowing @FrukostScones, who is not a fan of either HAM or VET and neither hater of HAM or VET, should be able to open that one quickly and we all can move over there to discuss what Vettel's problems have been.

In the meantime, I have a feeling that Vettel was overthinking about how Germany is going to qualify for the next rounds in the World Cup and boom, Bottas came right in front of him.
You are free to open a topic yourself, you are kind of obliged to stop those sublineal insinuations of bias towards FrukostScones, and you really should stop having that grudge.
#AeroFrodo

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dans79
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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GPR-A wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:40
Knowing @FrukostScones, who is not a fan of either HAM or VET and neither hater of HAM or VET, should be able to open that one quickly and we all can move over there to discuss what Vettel's problems have been.
One thing is for sure, he is taking a pounding from the Italian press.
http://www.grandprix.com/news/italy-sla ... error.html

"Vettel committed an amateur error and this time the consequences are serious," wrote La Gazzetta dello Sport.

"Despite its excellent car, for Ferrari it is once again a wasted opportunity."
La Repubblica added: "Vettel makes mistakes that he cannot afford if he wants to win another world title."
And the copy at La Stampa reads: "It was a great catch up drive, but also ten wasted points because of too much impulsiveness."
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Mamba
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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bonjon1979 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 12:50
Seriously? Bottas hit vettel? He was ahead of him and Vettel nerfed him in the rear. I'm not one who thinks that Vettel wasn't punished severely enough. He was racing in the slipstream, lost a bit of downforce and then couldn't slow it down. It was his mistake but it wasn't a heinous act of terrible driving. It was just a miscalculation. But let's not start throwing silly remarks around like, Bottas hit Vettel as it does nothing to really help the discourse.
I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean to lay any blame with Bottas. He left space for Vettel but the combination of him turning in for the corner - which he did have to do - and Vettel, well, not being able to turn due to his lock and understeer caused the collision. I did not mean that Bottas caused the contact. My wording seems to have been off there.

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Sieper
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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dans79 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:30
Sieper wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 15:49
Agree 100% with you TAG, that it took this long for someone to post it.
It was posted way earlier, I know because i mentioned it, as did others. However it was lost in the post race thread spam we usually get form members who only post in race threads to antagonize others.
Sieper wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 15:49
It was the race defining move as Vettel was desperate to still get by (to hope to challenge Hamilton for the Victory) and slid into Bottas taking them both out (more or less, they were not fully out yet of course).
In a way, Vettel kind of has himself to blame for this. over the last few seasons he has shown that he has a tendency to make bad decision in desperate/tense situations and now others are taking advantage of that.
Sorry about that Dans, missed that, did not mean to discredit you and others already mentioning it. Should have not phrased it like I did. And I agree with your other point as well, as Vettel is indeed a little prone to try and make an ultimate move, others can anticipate that. Like I stated a few times before over the last days, I think certainly Hamilton is absolutely able to read his competitor and think ahead.

I don,t mind Vettel trying it anyway, but the criticism that this costs you in the long run is valid. A lesson Verstappen is also learning this year. But it is also in his character to keep trying it. Hamilton in this good of a Mercedes is likely to score a few more WDC.

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dans79
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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Grosjean seriously needs to sit out a race, either because his team makes him or the FIA does. from the on boards you can see he literally just side swipes Ocon at the start, like he thought he could bully him out of the way.

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GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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TAG wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 15:17
Seeing the race again and spend time reviewing the start, I'm 100% sure that Bottas and Hamilton talked about how they'd counter the start with Vettel on the softer compound sure to attack the way he did. Pretty brilliant actually.
Exactly, Lewis deliberately lifted off very early to allow Bottas draw alongside to first box Vettel in, then crowd him out.

After the race in Canada, Lewis actually regretted not helping Bottas stop Vettel jumping him. So its highly likely that they drew up a plan, especially as Vettel was on the grippier tyre which would theoretically have given him a car lengths advantage by the first corner.

Vettel utterly lacks race craft, otherwise he would have pulled out of the ever shrinking space long before the corner. IMHO, he should have gotten a drive through - a guaranteed loss of 15 seconds in the least.

Edax
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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dans79 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 23:47
Grosjean seriously needs to sit out a race, either because his team makes him or the FIA does. from the on boards you can see he literally just side swipes Ocon at the start, like he thought he could bully him out of the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stslHU6Euv0
I guess being in his home country he just switched to the french road rules out of habit. :lol:

Lot of theys guys looked like they had been running training rounds on the Paris Pheripherique instead of Le Castillet.

foxmulder_ms
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Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:36

Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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Sieper wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 15:49
Agree 100% with you TAG, that it took this long for someone to post it. But I think that most (or some here) interpret anything you say involving Hammy as either hate or love. It was very obvious to me that Merc (both Bottas and Ham knew what they were going to do in case Vettel had a great start and went to the inside at turn 1) discussed this scenario up front. You could clearly see them boxing in Vet, Hammy just holding him up a bit, and Bottas (after being mostly passed) coming back alongside again.

It was the race defining move as Vettel was desperate to still get by (to hope to challenge Hamilton for the Victory) and slid into Bottas taking them both out (more or less, they were not fully out yet of course).

What was interesting to me is that I think Verstappen already hoped for this scenario as well (and due to his comparatively slow start was able to see it happen instead of being amidst the trouble) and went for the escape route quickly to comfortably slide in behind Hamilton (whilst Ricciardo as he was 1 Position down at the start was on the inside and came under attack (and lost a position) to Sainz who was starting on Ultras as well (like Vettel). Had Ricci not lost time to get back passed Sainz again he would have (I think due to his much higher rear wing setting (and likely front wing as well affording him better grip with the full fuel load as Max with the much lower wing settings)) been in a position to Attack Verstappen as his first stint was quicker.

All the direct result of the boxing in move by Merc.

If the rest of the carnage (further down the field) would have happened the same way without this touch between Vettel and Bottas is hard to say, likely not. But indeed, this simply was the race defining move, that is what the importance of qualifying is, if 2 team members are next to eachother they have so much power.

Sure but Vettel has a *break pedal*, you know...

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TAG
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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dans79 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:50
GPR-A wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:40
Knowing @FrukostScones, who is not a fan of either HAM or VET and neither hater of HAM or VET, should be able to open that one quickly and we all can move over there to discuss what Vettel's problems have been.
One thing is for sure, he is taking a pounding from the Italian press.
http://www.grandprix.com/news/italy-sla ... error.html

"Vettel committed an amateur error and this time the consequences are serious," wrote La Gazzetta dello Sport.

"Despite its excellent car, for Ferrari it is once again a wasted opportunity."
La Repubblica added: "Vettel makes mistakes that he cannot afford if he wants to win another world title."
And the copy at La Stampa reads: "It was a great catch up drive, but also ten wasted points because of too much impulsiveness."
WTF? Vettel won driver of the day, is there no pleasing these people?? :mrgreen:
माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

zac510
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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The Italian media seem to be acting exactly how Verstappen asked the media to!

makecry
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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TAG wrote:
27 Jun 2018, 06:03
dans79 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:50
GPR-A wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 16:40
Knowing @FrukostScones, who is not a fan of either HAM or VET and neither hater of HAM or VET, should be able to open that one quickly and we all can move over there to discuss what Vettel's problems have been.
One thing is for sure, he is taking a pounding from the Italian press.
http://www.grandprix.com/news/italy-sla ... error.html

"Vettel committed an amateur error and this time the consequences are serious," wrote La Gazzetta dello Sport.

"Despite its excellent car, for Ferrari it is once again a wasted opportunity."
La Repubblica added: "Vettel makes mistakes that he cannot afford if he wants to win another world title."
And the copy at La Stampa reads: "It was a great catch up drive, but also ten wasted points because of too much impulsiveness."

WTF? Vettel won driver of the day, is there no pleasing these people?? :mrgreen:
LOL, he also lost 5-8 points coz of his own doing. So no. As a former-tifosi, I would be mad if my team had the fastest car and the 4XWDC made such mistakes. When was the last time you saw Lewis or Fernando run into another car as often as Seb does? If Vettel loses WDC because of such retarded errors, it's on him. Ferrari has provided him with a car that is capable of winning the WDC and now it's on him to have clean races and not --- up.

Driver of the day means jackshit. It's just a lot of fans voting for their favorite driver and Ferrari has more fans than anyone. He was not the driver of the day, he lost the points he shouldnt have.

roon
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Re: 2018 French Grand Prix, Le Castellet, June 22-24

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dans79 wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 23:47
Grosjean seriously needs to sit out a race, either because his team makes him or the FIA does. from the on boards you can see he literally just side swipes Ocon at the start, like he thought he could bully him out of the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stslHU6Euv0
Rough start for Ocon. Bumped by Grosjean, taken out by Gasly. Either a big lack of situational awareness, or just malice, on Grosjean's part. Odd.

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