2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

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GrayGreat
7
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:21 am

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by GrayGreat » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:14 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:54 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:48 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:40 pm
2016 tyre test were Ferrari had major chunk of testing and they even fed false aero data etc to get the tyres to suit them more...How do u think Ferrari closed the gap to Merc in 2017. 3rd best team in 2016 and bam top team in 2017
It's very simple - Merc and Hamilton couldn't be bothered with those tests. Kimi a bit as well, Seb gladly accepted to drive the wheels off the mule car whenever he had a chance.
Even if the mule car was run by one team the data from it should have been uniform...but Ferrari purposely altered their mule car's aero so that the data reaching others was false and they and pirelli only knew the original data and in turn allowed them to be better adapted to 2017 tyres...hence their great tyre management ever since. Which is why their tyres were good today....that same tyre construction is still carried over.......I didn't see any cry over this and now when just 0.4 mm ...just 0.4mm is reduced for 3 races out of 21 for reduction in graining due to new track surface, people are now crying
'data reached to others was false' :lol:

Oh you have no idea what you are talking about, seriously.

Ferrari changed aero parts to emulate 2017 downforce levels, wider wings etc. Even RedBull was running side skirts to increase downforce to put more load into the tyres to ensure that the tyres could handle increased levels of downforce. Get your facts straight.

LM10
53
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by LM10 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:18 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:59 pm
LionKing wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:48 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:40 pm
2016 tyre test were Ferrari had major chunk of testing and they even fed false aero data etc to get the tyres to suit them more...How do u think Ferrari closed the gap to Merc in 2017. 3rd best team in 2016 and bam top team in 2017
You do realise 2017 cars were a different animal compared to 2016 due to regulation changes.
Yes, but there is no magic in tyre management. 3rd best team in this jumping to the best....that is not coincidence
Ferrari definitely didn't start the season as third best. Throughout season they lost the development battle to Redbull, which is not a new thing with Ferrari.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Ferrari step by step got more competitive after Vettel joined them? Vettel surely is a driver which helps building and developing a car and if he does that by accepting every chance of testing there is no bad thing about that.

siskue2005
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:22 pm

GrayGreat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:09 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:57 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:49 pm


Read this:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-w ... ts-916660/
Why were pirelli just listening to Vettel (according to the article) why the bias from pirelli and giving them tyres which suited their needs and cars characteristics
First of all, the article says nowhere that Pirelly were only listening to Vettel. Wolff says it is different when Vettel gives feedback compare to Pascal, which is quite obvious, 4 time World Champion vs a Rookie, in Pirelli's view, Vettel's feedback would automatically be more credible, but still, the article did not say that Pirelli only listened to Vettel.
Why r they biased? This is tyre test should have been equal for all.
Second, Mercedes were given the opportunity, but didn't take it. Pascal obviously would have told Mercedes how those tyres handled but Vettel gave more accurate feedback to Ferrari as compared to what Pascal gave to Mercedes. If anything made the difference, that's what it is.
All teams did equal tests, but Merc and others only used test drivers. You do know that all data from all the teams were distributed to everyone.
Were u there when Vettel gave feedback to the team and compared that with Pascal? The article said how PIRELLI listened to Vettel alone....That in itself gave them advantage...why would a tyre supplier be biased to one team?
And third, how do you think Vettel gave feedback to Pirelli? Like dictated them on how to make tyres or what changes to make to them so that it can suit their car better? Or did Vettel knew how their 2017 car would be, the energy it will put into the tyres, the kind of suspension geometry it will have, or did he have a crystal ball?
If u think that in last 2016 Ferrari didn't have their 2017 car ready and run them in simulator and knew about how the suspension eneegy works etc, then there is no use in this discussion. We don't need crystal ball to see it.....Ferrari mule car was said to run different aero pressure balance levels and aero levels than actual 2017 levels (pirelli themselves said this) this false data lead to making rock hard tyre which in turn helped Ferrari more

siskue2005
155
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:28 pm

GrayGreat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:14 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:54 pm
Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:48 pm

It's very simple - Merc and Hamilton couldn't be bothered with those tests. Kimi a bit as well, Seb gladly accepted to drive the wheels off the mule car whenever he had a chance.
Even if the mule car was run by one team the data from it should have been uniform...but Ferrari purposely altered their mule car's aero so that the data reaching others was false and they and pirelli only knew the original data and in turn allowed them to be better adapted to 2017 tyres...hence their great tyre management ever since. Which is why their tyres were good today....that same tyre construction is still carried over.......I didn't see any cry over this and now when just 0.4 mm ...just 0.4mm is reduced for 3 races out of 21 for reduction in graining due to new track surface, people are now crying
'data reached to others was false' :lol:

Oh you have no idea what you are talking about, seriously.

Ferrari changed aero parts to emulate 2017 downforce levels, wider wings etc. Even RedBull was running side skirts to increase downforce to put more load into the tyres to ensure that the tyres could handle increased levels of downforce. Get your facts straight.
Oh u also have no idea what u r talking about, seriously.
So u say the mule car had exactly the same aero pressure distribution and same aero levels of 2017 and also redbull Merc and Ferrari all had the same downforce levels to their 2017 car, then u r seriously don't have any idea about it

siskue2005
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:30 pm

LM10 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:18 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:59 pm
LionKing wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:48 pm

You do realise 2017 cars were a different animal compared to 2016 due to regulation changes.
Yes, but there is no magic in tyre management. 3rd best team in this jumping to the best....that is not coincidence
Ferrari definitely didn't start the season as third best. Throughout season they lost the development battle to Redbull, which is not a new thing with Ferrari.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Ferrari step by step got more competitive after Vettel joined them? Vettel surely is a driver which helps building and developing a car and if he does that by accepting every chance of testing there is no bad thing about that.
Ferrari got better because of rule changes to stop Merc domination and also because of special tyres from pirelli which suited them since 2017. If Vettel was great in development why r they still behind Merc

atanatizante
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by atanatizante » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:31 pm

Phil wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:13 pm
The gearbox is probably related to the kerbs. And the tires related to set-up. The weather and tarmac temperature was significantly higher today than yesterday or Friday.
This is the third hydraulic issue since they put the new 2.1 P.U. (Perez in France and Bottas both there and here in Austria). Having on both circuits that mean is not related to these dangerous kerbing. That means is a serious issue for not seeing it with all their rigs, dyno and simulation tools that they have. This is something they could only see out there on the track where they couldn`t simulate. And my opinion is that with their new PU they`ve induced some resonance frequency which they couldn't see in their home tests ... and Lewis` fuel pressure loss is nothing to do with this ...

Now regarding the tyres matter, these are the facts:
- Vettel did 37 laps on soft tyres on FP2 which was most of all teams were doing at that tyre;
- Ted said on the Notebook that the key for nursing the soft tyres so long was that in the first part of the stint he should take it easy on them;
- C.Horner and then Max said that his tyre management was due to avoiding those turns 9 and 10, both for kerbing but mostly for the lateral loads which were too high for a one-stop strategy ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

LM10
53
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by LM10 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:35 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:30 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:18 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:59 pm


Yes, but there is no magic in tyre management. 3rd best team in this jumping to the best....that is not coincidence
Ferrari definitely didn't start the season as third best. Throughout season they lost the development battle to Redbull, which is not a new thing with Ferrari.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Ferrari step by step got more competitive after Vettel joined them? Vettel surely is a driver which helps building and developing a car and if he does that by accepting every chance of testing there is no bad thing about that.
Ferrari got better because of rule changes to stop Merc domination and also because of special tyres from pirelli which suited them since 2017. If Vettel was great in development why r they still behind Merc
Okay

GrayGreat
7
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:21 am

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by GrayGreat » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:36 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:22 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:09 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:57 pm


Why were pirelli just listening to Vettel (according to the article) why the bias from pirelli and giving them tyres which suited their needs and cars characteristics
First of all, the article says nowhere that Pirelly were only listening to Vettel. Wolff says it is different when Vettel gives feedback compare to Pascal, which is quite obvious, 4 time World Champion vs a Rookie, in Pirelli's view, Vettel's feedback would automatically be more credible, but still, the article did not say that Pirelli only listened to Vettel.
Why r they biased? This is tyre test should have been equal for all.
Second, Mercedes were given the opportunity, but didn't take it. Pascal obviously would have told Mercedes how those tyres handled but Vettel gave more accurate feedback to Ferrari as compared to what Pascal gave to Mercedes. If anything made the difference, that's what it is.
All teams did equal tests, but Merc and others only used test drivers. You do know that all data from all the teams were distributed to everyone.
Were u there when Vettel gave feedback to the team and compared that with Pascal? The article said how PIRELLI listened to Vettel alone....That in itself gave them advantage...why would a tyre supplier be biased to one team?
And third, how do you think Vettel gave feedback to Pirelli? Like dictated them on how to make tyres or what changes to make to them so that it can suit their car better? Or did Vettel knew how their 2017 car would be, the energy it will put into the tyres, the kind of suspension geometry it will have, or did he have a crystal ball?
If u think that in last 2016 Ferrari didn't have their 2017 car ready and run them in simulator and knew about how the suspension eneegy works etc, then there is no use in this discussion. We don't need crystal ball to see it.....Ferrari mule car was said to run different aero pressure balance levels and aero levels than actual 2017 levels (pirelli themselves said this) this false data lead to making rock hard tyre which in turn helped Ferrari more
1. It was equal for everyone involved.
2. Their fault for not using their official race drivers.
3. I cannot find that specific line in that article, no matter how hard I try. Please point me to it.
4. If Ferrari knew about their 2017 car, then other teams did as well. All cars were running somewhat modified so we can assume that each time did their best to emulate their own 2017 car. If they did not do that, it is their fault.
5. It is Mercedes that likes harder tyres, and Ferrari likes softer tyres. You've got it the other way around.

Mansell89
17
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:21 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by Mansell89 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:37 pm

Away from the actual racing today- does anyone else feel embarrassed that during instant replays/slo mo replays, F1 television has to play the sound of 1980s Turbo engines to make it seem like there’s more noise going on?

Can’t explain how much I hate this era.

GrayGreat
7
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:21 am

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by GrayGreat » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:39 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:30 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:18 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:59 pm


Yes, but there is no magic in tyre management. 3rd best team in this jumping to the best....that is not coincidence
Ferrari definitely didn't start the season as third best. Throughout season they lost the development battle to Redbull, which is not a new thing with Ferrari.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Ferrari step by step got more competitive after Vettel joined them? Vettel surely is a driver which helps building and developing a car and if he does that by accepting every chance of testing there is no bad thing about that.
Ferrari got better because of rule changes to stop Merc domination and also because of special tyres from pirelli which suited them since 2017. If Vettel was great in development why r they still behind Merc
One moment you say that Ferrari jumped from 3rd to best because of the tyres. Next moment you say Ferrari is still behind Mercedes.

My discussiin with you is done. You are right, I'm wrong. Have fun.

siskue2005
155
User avatar
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:42 pm

GrayGreat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:39 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:30 pm
LM10 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:18 pm


Ferrari definitely didn't start the season as third best. Throughout season they lost the development battle to Redbull, which is not a new thing with Ferrari.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Ferrari step by step got more competitive after Vettel joined them? Vettel surely is a driver which helps building and developing a car and if he does that by accepting every chance of testing there is no bad thing about that.
Ferrari got better because of rule changes to stop Merc domination and also because of special tyres from pirelli which suited them since 2017. If Vettel was great in development why r they still behind Merc
One moment you say that Ferrari jumped from 3rd to best because of the tyres. Next moment you say Ferrari is still behind Mercedes.

My discussiin with you is done. You are right, I'm wrong. Have fun.
They r on tyre management and not on other parts which they couldn't manipulate....if u can't read or understand that there r more than one element in a car to win, then my discussion with u is done. You are wrong, I'm right. Have fun

marvin78
13
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:33 am

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by marvin78 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:44 pm

Again: what a Kindergarten. What you guys do, has nothing to do with a discussion.

siskue2005
155
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:45 pm

GrayGreat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:36 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:22 pm
GrayGreat wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:09 pm


First of all, the article says nowhere that Pirelly were only listening to Vettel. Wolff says it is different when Vettel gives feedback compare to Pascal, which is quite obvious, 4 time World Champion vs a Rookie, in Pirelli's view, Vettel's feedback would automatically be more credible, but still, the article did not say that Pirelli only listened to Vettel.
Why r they biased? This is tyre test should have been equal for all.
Second, Mercedes were given the opportunity, but didn't take it. Pascal obviously would have told Mercedes how those tyres handled but Vettel gave more accurate feedback to Ferrari as compared to what Pascal gave to Mercedes. If anything made the difference, that's what it is.
All teams did equal tests, but Merc and others only used test drivers. You do know that all data from all the teams were distributed to everyone.
Were u there when Vettel gave feedback to the team and compared that with Pascal? The article said how PIRELLI listened to Vettel alone....That in itself gave them advantage...why would a tyre supplier be biased to one team?
And third, how do you think Vettel gave feedback to Pirelli? Like dictated them on how to make tyres or what changes to make to them so that it can suit their car better? Or did Vettel knew how their 2017 car would be, the energy it will put into the tyres, the kind of suspension geometry it will have, or did he have a crystal ball?
If u think that in last 2016 Ferrari didn't have their 2017 car ready and run them in simulator and knew about how the suspension eneegy works etc, then there is no use in this discussion. We don't need crystal ball to see it.....Ferrari mule car was said to run different aero pressure balance levels and aero levels than actual 2017 levels (pirelli themselves said this) this false data lead to making rock hard tyre which in turn helped Ferrari more
1. It was equal for everyone involved.
2. Their fault for not using their official race drivers.
3. I cannot find that specific line in that article, no matter how hard I try. Please point me to it.
4. If Ferrari knew about their 2017 car, then other teams did as well. All cars were running somewhat modified so we can assume that each time did their best to emulate their own 2017 car. If they did not do that, it is their fault.
5. It is Mercedes that likes harder tyres, and Ferrari likes softer tyres. You've got it the other way around.
1 to 4. Ferrari smart so other piss off, as we will get tyres specific to our car

5. Rock hard tyres means softer ones are as hard as 2016 hardest option. So that favours ferrari

siskue2005
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by siskue2005 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:49 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:44 pm
Again: what a Kindergarten. What you guys do, has nothing to do with a discussion.
It does as ferrari fans here claiming the 3 races with thiner tyres favour Merc...but actually pirelli has their tyres already custom made to suit Ferrari from 2017 onwards as they tested with Ferrari made the new tyres to suit ferrari

popovic94
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: 2018 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 29 June - 1 July

Post by popovic94 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:53 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:44 pm
Again: what a Kindergarten. What you guys do, has nothing to do with a discussion.
+1 To much fan bias, this is technical forum and discussion should be backed up with facts.
I said that somebody was trolling because his comments were silly, and my comment was deleted even tho i never made statment that was not true.
"Whoever you are, no matter what social position you have, rich or poor, always show great strength and determination, and always do everything with much love and deep faith in God. One day you will reach your goal." Ayrton Senna