2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by turbof1 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:02 pm

zeph wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:55 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:26 pm
If you guys want to settle scores, go meet up a place where you can baseball club eachother.
Bat. It’s a baseball bat, not club.

This is technical and factual forum, details matter. :mrgreen:
Fair enough :oops: . Does that mean I'll have to ban myself :mrgreen: ?
#AeroFrodo

ripper
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by ripper » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:03 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:47 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:37 pm
I need to ask a question, especially to those whose opinion was that Ferrari most probably was cheating on engine side because in the last few races their qualifying gap to Mercedes was gone.
This can be considered as provoking. Instead of focussing your answer solely "especially to those whose opinion was that Ferrari most probably was cheating", I know there were some and those got reprimanded for that, why not aim the question to the general public? Really, I do consider this close to instigating, which is a shame because the question itself has a lot of merit. So I am going to ask everyone to ignore the part where you adress the 'opinionated ones' and just formulate a sensible and logical answer to your question.
What's the explanation of Kimi on a 5 (or 6?) races old spec 1 engine being just a tenth slower than Hamilton on a relatively fresh spec 2.1 engine on a track which a.) is quite power sensitive, b.) suits/has been suiting Mercedes over the last years and on top of that c.) Hamilton is dominantly fast at?

It's interesting that in Silverstone Horner (if I'm not mistaken) told that Ferrari was the most powerful PU. Why was the PU a talking point this time, but not the last couple of races? Had Ferrari been using less of the engine and once they were sure being within the limits of reliability they started to go all in again?
First off, can you confirm he was effectively driving his spec 1 engine? This is the first thing I heard about this.

Second, the reason why we are hearing about this now is because Silverstone is now a mid- to low downforce circuit, with 82% on throttle. It effectively has become a power circuit like Monza.

Third: your question boils down what Kim was actually driving for PU components. I really can't imagine his full spec 1 PU being that competitive, but I can if the spec 1 ICE was coupled to a spec 2 turbo, a spec 2 mgu-h and/or spec 2 mgu-k.

What is clear, is that Ferrari is now roughly on equal grounds with Mercedes concerning the power unit.
Raikkonen is using his 2nd ICE allowed for the season, he had to change it in Spain so they fitted the "standard" engine in his car (codename 062 EVO), while in Canada he got his 3rd TC (so it could be an evolution) but he's still on "Spain version" of MGU-H.

Vettel changed his PU in Canada and they fitted all-new version codename 062 EVO2.

TAG
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by TAG » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:08 pm

zeph wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:55 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:26 pm
If you guys want to settle scores, go meet up a place where you can baseball club eachother.
Bat. It’s a baseball bat, not club.
This caused me to spit out my coffee.
Fighting for a 6th World Drivers' Championship ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

atanatizante
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by atanatizante » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:30 pm

Here`s something about why Ferrari has the upper hand in the PU area, according to Nico Rosberg: https://streamable.com/hg6gd

And here he elaborates further on putting emphasis on his good internal sources: https://streamable.com/vh89e

So it`s down to they have a better “H” now?
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

LM10
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by LM10 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:39 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:47 pm

This can be considered as provoking. Instead of focussing your answer solely "especially to those whose opinion was that Ferrari most probably was cheating", I know there were some and those got reprimanded for that, why not aim the question to the general public? Really, I do consider this close to instigating, which is a shame because the question itself has a lot of merit. So I am going to ask everyone to ignore the part where you adress the 'opinionated ones' and just formulate a sensible and logical answer to your question.
My intention was not to provoke. In fact, I thought that aiming it to all would have been considered as provoking. It's just a matter of different interpretations, I guess. Sry, if I provoked anyone.
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:47 pm
First off, can you confirm he was effectively driving his spec 1 engine? This is the first thing I heard about this.

Second, the reason why we are hearing about this now is because Silverstone is now a mid- to low downforce circuit, with 82% on throttle. It effectively has become a power circuit like Monza.

Third: your question boils down what Kim was actually driving for PU components. I really can't imagine his full spec 1 PU being that competitive, but I can if the spec 1 ICE was coupled to a spec 2 turbo, a spec 2 mgu-h and/or spec 2 mgu-k.

What is clear, is that Ferrari is now roughly on equal grounds with Mercedes concerning the power unit.
I can't confirm it, you're right. But there was no news about him using new spec parts. It can very well be the case, but wouldn't this mean that he would already be at the limit right now? So when spec 3 is being introduced, he gets a penalty? Maybe I'm missing a point. Thank you for answering!

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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by turbof1 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:46 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:39 pm
I can't confirm it, you're right. But there was no news about him using new spec parts. It can very well be the case, but wouldn't this mean that he would already be at the limit right now? So when spec 3 is being introduced, he gets a penalty? Maybe I'm missing a point. Thank you for answering!
Ripper confirmed basically what you are saying. So yes, the spec 1 ICE mixed with spec 2 components (there are going to be updates on those, no matter how small) is a strong PU.

Interestingly, he did receive the Canada spec turbo charger. Going from what Rosberg said, and he really seems convinced, this component is crucial. More pressure in the PU means more drive for the mgu-h.
#AeroFrodo

Juzh
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Juzh » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:05 pm

Ferrari is doing alright on the numbers' side:

Image

dans79
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by dans79 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:48 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:02 pm
Fair enough :oops: . Does that mean I'll have to ban myself :mrgreen: ?
No punishment for this type of offense is to sit through an extra innings game with no access to adult beverages! :lol:

LM10
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by LM10 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:10 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:46 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:39 pm
I can't confirm it, you're right. But there was no news about him using new spec parts. It can very well be the case, but wouldn't this mean that he would already be at the limit right now? So when spec 3 is being introduced, he gets a penalty? Maybe I'm missing a point. Thank you for answering!
Ripper confirmed basically what you are saying. So yes, the spec 1 ICE mixed with spec 2 components (there are going to be updates on those, no matter how small) is a strong PU.

Interestingly, he did receive the Canada spec turbo charger. Going from what Rosberg said, and he really seems convinced, this component is crucial. More pressure in the PU means more drive for the mgu-h.
What i understand from Ripper's comment is that both ICE and MGU-H are spec 1 and the rest spec 2.
Yes, it indeed is interesting that he received the Canada spec turbocharger. I haven't watched Rosberg's video yet, though. Will do it now.

Sevach
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Sevach » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:11 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:46 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:39 pm
I can't confirm it, you're right. But there was no news about him using new spec parts. It can very well be the case, but wouldn't this mean that he would already be at the limit right now? So when spec 3 is being introduced, he gets a penalty? Maybe I'm missing a point. Thank you for answering!
Ripper confirmed basically what you are saying. So yes, the spec 1 ICE mixed with spec 2 components (there are going to be updates on those, no matter how small) is a strong PU.

Interestingly, he did receive the Canada spec turbo charger. Going from what Rosberg said, and he really seems convinced, this component is crucial. More pressure in the PU means more drive for the mgu-h.
In terms of trap speeds (i know, i know... doesn't mean anything) Kimi is on par with Vettel which helps this argument.

turbof1
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by turbof1 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:13 pm

Sevach wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:11 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:46 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:39 pm
I can't confirm it, you're right. But there was no news about him using new spec parts. It can very well be the case, but wouldn't this mean that he would already be at the limit right now? So when spec 3 is being introduced, he gets a penalty? Maybe I'm missing a point. Thank you for answering!
Ripper confirmed basically what you are saying. So yes, the spec 1 ICE mixed with spec 2 components (there are going to be updates on those, no matter how small) is a strong PU.

Interestingly, he did receive the Canada spec turbo charger. Going from what Rosberg said, and he really seems convinced, this component is crucial. More pressure in the PU means more drive for the mgu-h.
In terms of trap speeds (i know, i know... doesn't mean anything) Kimi is on par with Vettel which helps this argument.
Although trap speeds don't say a lot, I was shocked to see they reached 346kph, 20+kph more than last year. Silverstone really has become a circuit like Monza. So the PU has a much bigger emphasis.
#AeroFrodo

f1316
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by f1316 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:14 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:46 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:39 pm
I can't confirm it, you're right. But there was no news about him using new spec parts. It can very well be the case, but wouldn't this mean that he would already be at the limit right now? So when spec 3 is being introduced, he gets a penalty? Maybe I'm missing a point. Thank you for answering!
Ripper confirmed basically what you are saying. So yes, the spec 1 ICE mixed with spec 2 components (there are going to be updates on those, no matter how small) is a strong PU.

Interestingly, he did receive the Canada spec turbo charger. Going from what Rosberg said, and he really seems convinced, this component is crucial. More pressure in the PU means more drive for the mgu-h.
I think this also speaks to why their PU was so important on a fairly long circuit with a lot of full throttle - it’s not necessarily about having more peak power, as the electrical power is capped, but it’s about being able to have that peak power for more of such a long lap.

Sevach
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Sevach » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:49 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:13 pm
Sevach wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:11 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:46 pm


Ripper confirmed basically what you are saying. So yes, the spec 1 ICE mixed with spec 2 components (there are going to be updates on those, no matter how small) is a strong PU.

Interestingly, he did receive the Canada spec turbo charger. Going from what Rosberg said, and he really seems convinced, this component is crucial. More pressure in the PU means more drive for the mgu-h.
In terms of trap speeds (i know, i know... doesn't mean anything) Kimi is on par with Vettel which helps this argument.
Although trap speeds don't say a lot, I was shocked to see they reached 346kph, 20+kph more than last year. Silverstone really has become a circuit like Monza. So the PU has a much bigger emphasis.
Lots of corners have become straights which changed the nature of the track.

LM10
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by LM10 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:30 pm

dans79 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:51 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:37 pm
I need to ask a question, especially to those whose opinion was that Ferrari most probably was cheating on engine side because in the last few races their qualifying gap to Mercedes was gone. What's the explanation of Kimi on a 5 (or 6?) races old spec 1 engine being just a tenth slower than Hamilton on a relatively fresh spec 2.1 engine on a track which a.) is quite power sensitive, b.) suits/has been suiting Mercedes over the last years and on top of that c.) Hamilton is dominantly fast at?
I don't think they where cheating, but In Austria and Silverstone, I believe all but the very back markers where limited by the tires.
Missed to answer you, sorry, but what do you mean?

Redragon
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Re: 2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

Post by Redragon » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:37 pm

Yes Alonso is a crying baby, I don't understand the FIA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QftfXbn ... r_embedded