2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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LM10
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by LM10 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:24 pm
falonso81 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:07 pm
Could have, would have...again, you are speculating. Merc's tyres would never make it to the end. Even in free air, blistering would appear, just as in Max's car.
The blistering was a direct result of 'overheating the surface of the tire' - also due to pushing hard on them. Not pushing them hard would have prevented that blistering. It really isn't rocket science what happened.
It indeed is, for some. Especially, when you lack awareness of the energy that is put into the tires while cornering at max possible speed (while chasing) and at lift and cruise speed (while comfortably leading in free air). I guess the premium of being on pole is not well understood.
Maybe Mercedes should build a car which doesn't make problems when driving in dirty air. Both Vettel and Kimi followed other cars for several laps in Spielberg and both didn't even have a bit of an issue.

In Silverstone Hamilton thought that his car was damaged when he was on his way through the field. That shows how much he's used to be in clean air.

GPR-A
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by GPR-A » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:34 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:24 pm


The blistering was a direct result of 'overheating the surface of the tire' - also due to pushing hard on them. Not pushing them hard would have prevented that blistering. It really isn't rocket science what happened.
It indeed is, for some. Especially, when you lack awareness of the energy that is put into the tires while cornering at max possible speed (while chasing) and at lift and cruise speed (while comfortably leading in free air). I guess the premium of being on pole is not well understood.
Maybe Mercedes should build a car which doesn't make problems when driving in dirty air. Both Vettel and Kimi followed other cars for several laps in Spielberg and both didn't even have a bit of an issue.

In Silverstone Hamilton thought that his car was damaged when he was on his way through the field. That shows how much he's used to be in clean air.
I guess you have to wait for Ferrari to win a title (which they haven't in a decade, in which time, two different teams have won 4 title doubles) before calling out Mercedes. The situation wasn't different last year either!

It's about how a team approaches a weekend OR even the design philosophy itself, where if they see a benefit of having a setup or a philosophy that helps them bolt the car on pole and lead away from there, they can afford to pay the price of struggling when things don't go to plan. Mercedes has been in that league for a while now, which based on their success %, isn't a bad philosophy!

For the sake of Ferrari and the competition, you should keep praying that Mercedes never gets a handle on the tires, because if they do, the season would be over before you think it is, like it was last season after second half. Remember, Vettel went into Summer break with a good lead in his hands. And Ferrari are yet to prove that, they don't commit harakiri like they did last year and Vettel is generally a blink away from the red mist. There are a lot of things that can go wrong!

LM10
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by LM10 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:09 pm

GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:34 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 pm
It indeed is, for some. Especially, when you lack awareness of the energy that is put into the tires while cornering at max possible speed (while chasing) and at lift and cruise speed (while comfortably leading in free air). I guess the premium of being on pole is not well understood.
Maybe Mercedes should build a car which doesn't make problems when driving in dirty air. Both Vettel and Kimi followed other cars for several laps in Spielberg and both didn't even have a bit of an issue.

In Silverstone Hamilton thought that his car was damaged when he was on his way through the field. That shows how much he's used to be in clean air.
I guess you have to wait for Ferrari to win a title (which they haven't in a decade, in which time, two different teams have won 4 title doubles) before calling out Mercedes. The situation wasn't different last year either!

It's about how a team approaches a weekend OR even the design philosophy itself, where if they see a benefit of having a setup or a philosophy that helps them bolt the car on pole and lead away from there, they can afford to pay the price of struggling when things don't go to plan. Mercedes has been in that league for a while now, which based on their success %, isn't a bad philosophy!

For the sake of Ferrari and the competition, you should keep praying that Mercedes never gets a handle on the tires, because if they do, the season would be over before you think it is, like it was last season after second half. Remember, Vettel went into Summer break with a good lead in his hands. And Ferrari are yet to prove that, they don't commit harakiri like they did last year and Vettel is generally a blink away from the red mist. There are a lot of things that can go wrong!
You're right, Mercedes could afford having a car which struggled in dirty air because they simply were superior, got every pole and disappeared upfront. This year, until now it's a bit of a different story as we've seen and that's why they're having more problems.

I don't think that Mercedes doesn't handle tyres well at the moment. It's just an excuse due to the fact that they are behind on points.
Last year was different. Last year Mercedes clearly had tyre problems on Sundays and they managed to solve them at the half of the season. On the other hand, Ferrari had a good car from get-go, however, they didn't improve it well and this way Mercedes had an easy time.
This year Mercedes has never had tyre problems on race pace. They had them on Saturdays, but I'm confident that they solved them already in Barcelona. From that day on they have not told any words about a possible tyre issue and we all know that they had reported them every weekend in the first few races of the season.

You're right regarding Ferrari having to prove it until the end, as well, though.
Last edited by LM10 on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Sieper
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by Sieper » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:10 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:24 pm


The blistering was a direct result of 'overheating the surface of the tire' - also due to pushing hard on them. Not pushing them hard would have prevented that blistering. It really isn't rocket science what happened.
It indeed is, for some. Especially, when you lack awareness of the energy that is put into the tires while cornering at max possible speed (while chasing) and at lift and cruise speed (while comfortably leading in free air). I guess the premium of being on pole is not well understood.
Maybe Mercedes should build a car which doesn't make problems when driving in dirty air. Both Vettel and Kimi followed other cars for several laps in Spielberg and both didn't even have a bit of an issue.

In Silverstone Hamilton thought that his car was damaged when he was on his way through the field. That shows how much he's used to be in clean air.
I think he thought it was damaged simply due to the crash. He wasn't much in anybody's dirty air as they all simply moved out the way and his pace difference was such that he wasn't long in the 3 seconds behind a car window at all.

LM10
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by LM10 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:30 pm

Little update on weather for Hockenheim: Quite hot throughout weekend with 33 degrees on Friday and 28 degrees on both of the following days. Rain possibility of just 20% on Qualifying day.

falonso81
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by falonso81 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:56 am

Any chance Mercedes will try to qualify on the soft? If air temps are in the 30's track will be very hot and they will struggle on those ultras.

Wouter
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by Wouter » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:21 am

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:30 pm
Little update on weather for Hockenheim: Quite hot throughout weekend with 33 degrees on Friday and 28 degrees on both of the following days. Rain possibility of just 20% on Qualifying day.

Several sites say Friday 30-33 degrees and dry, but Saturday less hot, but rain and thunderstorms during the day, intermittently. Sunday also less warm but dry, maybe a little bit of rain.
Last edited by Wouter on Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vasconia
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by Vasconia » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:22 am

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 pm
Phil wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:24 pm


The blistering was a direct result of 'overheating the surface of the tire' - also due to pushing hard on them. Not pushing them hard would have prevented that blistering. It really isn't rocket science what happened.
It indeed is, for some. Especially, when you lack awareness of the energy that is put into the tires while cornering at max possible speed (while chasing) and at lift and cruise speed (while comfortably leading in free air). I guess the premium of being on pole is not well understood.
Maybe Mercedes should build a car which doesn't make problems when driving in dirty air. Both Vettel and Kimi followed other cars for several laps in Spielberg and both didn't even have a bit of an issue.

In Silverstone Hamilton thought that his car was damaged when he was on his way through the field. That shows how much he's used to be in clean air.
I tend to not take some Lewis comments very seriously. He said that when he was incredibly fast and overtaking cars very easily. Moreover, even overtaking others cars he managed to keep the tyres alive more than anyone else.

zibby43
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by zibby43 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:24 am

I want to believe Mercedes can be strong here, for the sake of an interesting championship battle, but I feel like this is going to be an easy win for Seb. Lewis will be in P2. Toss-up for P3.

Ferrari is performing well now and they have had great starts, fantastic luck, and near-perfect reliability.

Merc's had none of those things thus far.

Vasconia
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Location: Basque Country

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by Vasconia » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:47 am

zibby43 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:24 am
I want to believe Mercedes can be strong here, for the sake of an interesting championship battle, but I feel like this is going to be an easy win for Seb. Lewis will be in P2. Toss-up for P3.

Ferrari is performing well now and they have had great starts, fantastic luck, and near-perfect reliability.

Merc's had none of those things thus far.
We should keep in mind that Vettel lost several points in other races due to bad luck AKA Verstappen or safety car. I think the lucky aspect has been quite balanced so far.

I expect Mercedes to make better starts as they have been working hard during these days. Mercedes has shown a great race pace so far so it will be interesting to see how they perform in Hockenheim.

Vasconia
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by Vasconia » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:53 pm

And for the people thinking Ferrari has a better car than Mercedes.....

"We didn't score as many points in the triple-header as we had hoped for. A lot of that was down to our own mistakes. However, there is a silver lining to this - while we didn't maximise on points, we did bring the quickest car to all three races."

- Toto Wolff, 2018 German Grand Prix, Preview

Mandrake
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by Mandrake » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:23 pm

What the last races have shown: the gap between RedBull, Merc and Ferrari to the rest of the field is just massive. As long as there is enough of a straight with the 3 DRS zones we now always get there are many chances to overtake.

Also: if one of the leaders has to take a penalty or suffers from a getting together they should not be afraid in fighting back to the front. Fighting to keep the position costs too much fuel and tires and teams like force india, Renault etc. know they are better off just letting the fast driver by and not cost time and tires in fighting the unwinable fight. That opens up different strategy possibilities which will hopefully be exploited.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by foxmulder_ms » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:56 pm

Vasconia wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:53 pm
And for the people thinking Ferrari has a better car than Mercedes.....

"We didn't score as many points in the triple-header as we had hoped for. A lot of that was down to our own mistakes. However, there is a silver lining to this - while we didn't maximise on points, we did bring the quickest car to all three races."

- Toto Wolff, 2018 German Grand Prix, Preview

Yeah, I have to agree with him.

giantfan10
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by giantfan10 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:56 pm

Vasconia wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:53 pm
And for the people thinking Ferrari has a better car than Mercedes.....

"We didn't score as many points in the triple-header as we had hoped for. A lot of that was down to our own mistakes. However, there is a silver lining to this - while we didn't maximise on points, we did bring the quickest car to all three races."

- Toto Wolff, 2018 German Grand Prix, Preview
LOL Toto is where i go when i want the truth. :lol:
Hindsight is the solace of fools.
If Hamilton started better we would have won in Silverstone.
If Hamilton hadnt tangled with Kimi we would have won in Silverstone.
If both our cars didnt die in Austria we would have won.
A quick car gets you nothing when your strategy is garbage and your car cant finish a GP.
the better TEAM over the triple header scored the most points.
Lets see who has the better TEAM in germany. Making excuses counts for nothing on the track.

Sierra117
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post by Sierra117 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:38 pm

@giantfan10: But nobody's making excuses 🤔 (i.e. "A lot of that was down to our own mistakes.").
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