2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
User avatar
F1NAC
168
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:35 pm
Location: CRO

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:11 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:15 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:09 am


Did a few fist pumps today too. Vettel in the wall, beating on his steering wheel like a Conga drum made my day. :mrgreen:
Only low class fans applaud crashes, regardless of who the driver is.
That statement is such a generalization. Some crashes are serious... while some like the on vettel did are downright silly.. but I admit I felt sorry for him after a while.. but I am loving it when he cracks under pressure.

Look at the difference in wet weather driving skill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIE4ZhHsDjI
You realize it is worn soft which is harder tyre vs US fresh and softer compound which can get quickly up to temperature?

GrandAxe
GrandAxe
19
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

santos wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:15 pm
"I think for the sake of the sport and the fans and the drivers, at that stage in the season, the beginning of July, switching drivers is quite a brutal call." - Toto a few weeks ago
"Valtteri, it's James, please hold position. I'm sorry," - James Vowles

But then Toto explains why they did that, and the world says "Ok Toto, our dear god of F1".

At Ferrari, a driver is asked to not hold back the teammate. The world gets angry, and say that they are destroying the sport…

I'm ok with team orders. They should be applied whenever a team thinks it will get a better result.
Mercedes absolutely did NOT switch drivers at any point in that race.

GrandAxe
GrandAxe
19
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:06 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

seventhsin wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:40 pm
GrandAxe wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:21 pm

If that was the case the smaller teams wouldn't have gambled on intermediates and Gasly would certainly not have been put in full wets. So there was a chance at the very least the rain could have been worse to justify a gamble on intermediates. I'm sure weather tech is better than it was a few years ago, but in this case it was a rather fine line.
I think its that the smaller teams do not have the budget and computational resources of the big three (plus McLaren), so to predict the weather, might have to figuratively stick a hand through the window (alongside a little prayer). That's why we saw the howler of full wets at about the same time that Lewis was getting put on slicks (even though it was raining).

With the bigger teams, they were able to inform their drivers quite accurately about not just where the rain was going to come down, buts what its intensity and duration were going to be as well.
Even in Australia with our shockingly slow and expensive internet connections we have access to the live radar data of the Bureau of Meteorology.

Each ring of this radar map is 15km, I live in South Australia and there is a racetrack in the Mallala region of this map.
I have raced Superbikes there for nearly 15 years, we know which features of the track face North and using visual wind and cloud direction coupled with the data from this Government website, it's very easy to predict rainfall for the next 10 to 40 minutes.
In fact I even use the 64km radar loop below to find gaps in the rain to walk the dog.

I'd highly doubt that F1 teams have their own weather crew at every circuit, and rather that they'd all be tuned into the same data as each other. Wild tyre choices such as STR in this race likely come from having nothing or little to lose... Sometimes those gambles pay off though, as heavy rain can sometimes develop quickly and unexpectedly especially over hilly terrain.

Radar data loop shown in 10 minute intervals.
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR644.l ... c38751.jpg[/url]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Thanks, that info is quite enlightening.

Wynters
Wynters
64
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:11 pm
Look at the difference in wet weather driving skill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIE4ZhHsDjI
Markedly different tyres.

Wynters
Wynters
64
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

Apologies if it has already been clarified, but do we know why Kimi didn't pit until the lap after the SC was deployed? Bottas was ahead and Mercedes say they had a 2.5 second window to make the call so Ferrari should have had a little longer? I suspect they were doing the opposite to whatever Bottas did (as that appears to be the rule of thumb) but it would be interesting to know for sure.

santos
santos
40
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

GrandAxe wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:12 pm
santos wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:15 pm
"I think for the sake of the sport and the fans and the drivers, at that stage in the season, the beginning of July, switching drivers is quite a brutal call." - Toto a few weeks ago
"Valtteri, it's James, please hold position. I'm sorry," - James Vowles

But then Toto explains why they did that, and the world says "Ok Toto, our dear god of F1".

At Ferrari, a driver is asked to not hold back the teammate. The world gets angry, and say that they are destroying the sport…

I'm ok with team orders. They should be applied whenever a team thinks it will get a better result.
Mercedes absolutely did NOT switch drivers at any point in that race.
In the end, the result is the same... And i'm ok with what Mercedes did. I just don't like the fairy tales of letting the drivers do what they supposed to do even when they are teammates. That's just romantic talk.
Maybe Horner belives in that... look how it ended at Azerbaijan.

User avatar
TAG
118
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:18 pm
Location: in a good place

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

Wynters wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:52 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:11 pm
Look at the difference in wet weather driving skill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIE4ZhHsDjI
Markedly different tyres.
and markedly different mindsets. you know Vettel woke up that morning wishing the rain away.
माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

sosic2121
sosic2121
20
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

Phil wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:14 pm
santos wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:15 pm
"I think for the sake of the sport and the fans and the drivers, at that stage in the season, the beginning of July, switching drivers is quite a brutal call." - Toto a few weeks ago
"Valtteri, it's James, please hold position. I'm sorry," - James Vowles

But then Toto explains why they did that, and the world says "Ok Toto, our dear god of F1".
Actually, I think there's a big difference in switching position and holding position. Switching position is artificial altering of the result. The latter could be used if both drivers are potentially damaging their own and the teams chances, i.e. if both have to save tires but as a result of engaging in on-track battle are making themselves vulnerable. The latter was also often discussed in relation to Hamilton and Rosberg from 2014 to 2016.

There are team-orders and there are team-orders. On one hand of the spectrum, you have a team concerned about their team-result, on the other spectrum, you have blatant favoritism and disregard for the driver who is a long way up the road and is then told to slow down and let the other pass (Barricello / Schumacher in Austria 2006).
Last race was Lewis holding position too?

sosic2121
sosic2121
20
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

TAG wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:17 pm
Wynters wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:52 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:11 pm
Look at the difference in wet weather driving skill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIE4ZhHsDjI
Markedly different tyres.
and markedly different mindsets. you know Vettel woke up that morning wishing the rain away.
Wow, what a skill difference. No chance Vettel could ever beat Hamilton on a wet track. Unless if he had vastly superior car, like that Toro Rosso was...

f1ssk
f1ssk
0
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 3:02 am

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

GPR-A wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:12 am
f1ssk wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:50 am
....
A few things.
.....
Sierra117 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:03 am
f1ssk wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:50 am
....
...
GPR-A wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:12 am
f1ssk wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:50 am
...
A few things....
turbof1 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:23 pm
f1ssk wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:50 am
...
...
Phil wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:55 pm
...
RZS10 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:44 pm

Thank you for clarifying. The F1 feed I watched cut out the battle between Hamilton and Bottas at that very moment and went got back to the battle when Bottas was just ahead of Kimi and the team orders radio message came on.

I take back my opinion ( I should have watched the highlights before commenting) and I feel much better for Hamilton win!
Back to just reading comments.

User avatar
iotar__
7
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:31 am

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

f1ssk wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:07 am
Thank you for clarifying. The F1 feed I watched cut out the battle between Hamilton and Bottas at that very moment and went got back to the battle when Bottas was just ahead of Kimi and the team orders radio message came on.

I take back my opinion ( I should have watched the highlights before commenting) and I feel much better for Hamilton win! Back to just reading comments.
As long as you feel better and you can chose it. https://www.pitpass.com/62484/Mercedes- ... -decisions "Mercedes strategist explains Hockenheim decisions"

Oh look, they sent "it's James" guy again. You see, it was purely racing, strategic decision, so says the strategy guy :roll: . Only dwellers of the deepest wells of fanatisicm can play along with this farce and lie to themselves. The only purpose of team orders in Germany was:

- Hamilton finishing in front of Bottas and scoring more points = Mercedes manipulating desired outcome. Rather routine pass the most likely result if F1 were a racing series (tyres). The only cost was Hamilton losing more tyres but simple remedy to that would be TO. "He's going to overtake you anyway so let's not risk".

- Bottas serving as a moving chicane againt Raikkonen. Unnecessary if you ask me but better safe than sorry. Raikkonen problem against Hamilton (2-3) would be easily fixed with a last lap switch, wouldn't it? Better driver winning and Mercedes getting 1-2. No? Not interested? I thought so.

foxmulder_ms
foxmulder_ms
2
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

iotar__ wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:29 am
f1ssk wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:07 am
Thank you for clarifying. The F1 feed I watched cut out the battle between Hamilton and Bottas at that very moment and went got back to the battle when Bottas was just ahead of Kimi and the team orders radio message came on.

I take back my opinion ( I should have watched the highlights before commenting) and I feel much better for Hamilton win! Back to just reading comments.
As long as you feel better and you can chose it. https://www.pitpass.com/62484/Mercedes- ... -decisions "Mercedes strategist explains Hockenheim decisions"

Oh look, they sent "it's James" guy again. You see, it was purely racing, strategic decision, so says the strategy guy :roll: . Only dwellers of the deepest wells of fanatisicm can play along with this farce and lie to themselves. The only purpose of team orders in Germany was:

- Hamilton finishing in front of Bottas and scoring more points = Mercedes manipulating desired outcome. Rather routine pass the most likely result if F1 were a racing series (tyres). The only cost was Hamilton losing more tyres but simple remedy to that would be TO. "He's going to overtake you anyway so let's not risk".

- Bottas serving as a moving chicane againt Raikkonen. Unnecessary if you ask me but better safe than sorry. Raikkonen problem against Hamilton (2-3) would be easily fixed with a last lap switch, wouldn't it? Better driver winning and Mercedes getting 1-2. No? Not interested? I thought so.

"better driver"?? who is that? :D :D :D

User avatar
GPR-A duplicate2
167
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:34 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:46 pm
<text>
<text>
<text> And Ferrari are yet to prove that, they don't commit harakiri like they did last year and Vettel is generally a blink away from the red mist. There are a lot of things that can go wrong!
Soothsayer! :wink:

Cannonballer
Cannonballer
8
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:12 am

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:08 am
Cannonballer wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:27 am
Vettel deliberately crashed into an opponents car last year and got a slap on the wrist.
10s stop&go is slap on the wrist?
For deliberately driving into an opponents car? Yes, it is. But that is over.
The point is that the maximum penalty has not been imposed in either case. Hamilton could have been hit with a five second time penalty, but got a reprimand. Vettel could have been disqualified from the Baku race and banned for the next race, but he got a 10 second stop and go time penalty. In either case it is obvious if it were a driver of a lesser stature the penalty imposed would have been more severe.
Wazari wrote: There's a saying in Japan, He might be higher than testicles on a giraffe...........

User avatar
siskue2005
185
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:06 pm
TAG wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:17 pm
Wynters wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:52 pm
Markedly different tyres.
and markedly different mindsets. you know Vettel woke up that morning wishing the rain away.
Wow, what a skill difference. No chance Vettel could ever beat Hamilton on a wet track. Unless if he had vastly superior car, like that Toro Rosso was...
I know Vettel is a great driver....but not everyone can excel in every conditions..... Schumacher and Senna were the only ones to do that in the history of F1.

But please don't bring up the 2008 monza race as any indication for his superior wet weather skill....remember even Bordais had his career best qualy and race result in the toro rossi in that race.