2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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ME4ME wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:11 am
I don't expect Red Bull to be mighty at all; they still need to trim some wing off to deal with the long straight.
It's not about wings, it's about shorter floor and a large amount of aero bits in barge board area. Their diffuser works fantastic, but their efficiency is lacking. So they need to reduce wings a bit more than Ferrari and Merc to reduce drag on power tracks, just like Ferrari had to (compared to Merc) last year.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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foxmulder_ms
foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 am
f1316 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:03 am
makecry wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:44 am


Mark Hughes had an article on it. Ferrari was faster by 0.026s in race trim.
In case you haven’t seen it:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ilverstone

I do think there’s an omission from the article - namely how Bottas was getting pretty close in the second stint.

Vettel says he had it completely under control and was managing the tyres - whereas we saw Bottas run out of tyres despite a long time behind th safety car - so this totally stands to reason. But Hughes’ article doesn’t mention that - in fact he says Vettel was slowly increasing his gap in the second stint, which simply isn’t true.

My view is that the Ferrari had worse tyre management than the Mercedes on that day, so Vettel was consciously being extremely careful with his second set, allowing Bottas to close down, but it’s completely impossible to accurately determine who was faster from th data we have. If it’s true that Mercedes personnel tend to agree that Ferrari were quicker, that’s probably much more reliable.
But Toto has said just the opposite. Who lies?

Mark Huges makes an interesting analysis but he is focused on specific laps and reachs a conclusion for the hole race. I think Ferrari was slightly faster with the softest compound while Mercedes was faster with the hardest one. Another interesting aspect is that Ferrari could make the tyres last as Mercedes did so I have big doubts to judge that Ferrari was faster.
IF, Vettel didn't have his good start compared to Mercedes, he couldn't have win. That simple.

Toto was not saying Ferrari did not deserve. He was saying if the mistakes/misfortunes didn't happen in last races they would have won all. and, I agree with that.

foxmulder_ms
foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:35 am
Would bw nice is hulk scores a podium for his home race. I can dream right?
It can happen. It all needs a good move by Ves :D

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:00 am

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:33 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:11 am
I don't expect Red Bull to be mighty at all; they still need to trim some wing off to deal with the long straight.
It's not about wings, it's about shorter floor and a large amount of aero bits in barge board area. Their diffuser works fantastic, but their efficiency is lacking. So they need to reduce wings a bit more than Ferrari and Merc to reduce drag on power tracks, just like Ferrari had to (compared to Merc) last year.
The circuit has 4 corners that bring the speed down to 100 kph or less. Turn 2 (Sector 1), 6 & 8 (Sector 2) and 13 (Sector 3). Except for that, all other corners are high speed corners (200+ kph) and considering the current generation cars have far higher downforce than the cars that went to Hockenheimring in 2016, the cars might be even faster through those fast corners. I am afraid Red Bull is going to struggle here once again, just like in Silverstone, not just on power, but on efficient downforce that longer wheel base is giving to Merc and Ferrari.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:30 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 am
f1316 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:03 am


In case you haven’t seen it:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ilverstone

I do think there’s an omission from the article - namely how Bottas was getting pretty close in the second stint.

Vettel says he had it completely under control and was managing the tyres - whereas we saw Bottas run out of tyres despite a long time behind th safety car - so this totally stands to reason. But Hughes’ article doesn’t mention that - in fact he says Vettel was slowly increasing his gap in the second stint, which simply isn’t true.

My view is that the Ferrari had worse tyre management than the Mercedes on that day, so Vettel was consciously being extremely careful with his second set, allowing Bottas to close down, but it’s completely impossible to accurately determine who was faster from th data we have. If it’s true that Mercedes personnel tend to agree that Ferrari were quicker, that’s probably much more reliable.
But Toto has said just the opposite. Who lies?

Mark Huges makes an interesting analysis but he is focused on specific laps and reachs a conclusion for the hole race. I think Ferrari was slightly faster with the softest compound while Mercedes was faster with the hardest one. Another interesting aspect is that Ferrari could make the tyres last as Mercedes did so I have big doubts to judge that Ferrari was faster.
IF, Vettel didn't have his good start compared to Mercedes, he couldn't have win. That simple.

Toto was not saying Ferrari did not deserve. He was saying if the mistakes/misfortunes didn't happen in last races they would have won all. and, I agree with that.
In all that analysis that Mark Huges has done, he didn't speak a word about how the unusual 53 degree track temperature played a role in Silverstone, both in Qualifying and in Race. With these PIRELLI tyres being such a big factor in performance difference between Merc and Ferrari, a good amount of research into understanding who the higher temperatures favored, would have provided better insight into the ultimate pace of cars.

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ME4ME
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:33 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:11 am
I don't expect Red Bull to be mighty at all; they still need to trim some wing off to deal with the long straight.
It's not about wings, ..... So they need to reduce wings a bit
Since you quoted me I guess your post was a response to what I wrote, in which case: I didn't say it was all about wings. Just said they need to trim some off. Just like you agreed to. So I don't see what point you're trying to make. Unless you're trying to add additional information to the thread, in which case you hadn't needed to quote me.

roon
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:55 pm
Image
Via AMuS
Whoa, even the track has louvers. ~~pinnacle of motorsport~~

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:30 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 am
f1316 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:03 am


In case you haven’t seen it:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ilverstone

I do think there’s an omission from the article - namely how Bottas was getting pretty close in the second stint.

Vettel says he had it completely under control and was managing the tyres - whereas we saw Bottas run out of tyres despite a long time behind th safety car - so this totally stands to reason. But Hughes’ article doesn’t mention that - in fact he says Vettel was slowly increasing his gap in the second stint, which simply isn’t true.

My view is that the Ferrari had worse tyre management than the Mercedes on that day, so Vettel was consciously being extremely careful with his second set, allowing Bottas to close down, but it’s completely impossible to accurately determine who was faster from th data we have. If it’s true that Mercedes personnel tend to agree that Ferrari were quicker, that’s probably much more reliable.
But Toto has said just the opposite. Who lies?

Mark Huges makes an interesting analysis but he is focused on specific laps and reachs a conclusion for the hole race. I think Ferrari was slightly faster with the softest compound while Mercedes was faster with the hardest one. Another interesting aspect is that Ferrari could make the tyres last as Mercedes did so I have big doubts to judge that Ferrari was faster.
IF, Vettel didn't have his good start compared to Mercedes, he couldn't have win. That simple.

Toto was not saying Ferrari did not deserve. He was saying if the mistakes/misfortunes didn't happen in last races they would have won all. and, I agree with that.
One can't blame Toto for expecting them to have won all "last races". who didn't when Mercedes was racing on tyres made as per their request.

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F1Krof
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:17 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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GPR-A wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:41 pm
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:30 pm
Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:13 am


But Toto has said just the opposite. Who lies?

Mark Huges makes an interesting analysis but he is focused on specific laps and reachs a conclusion for the hole race. I think Ferrari was slightly faster with the softest compound while Mercedes was faster with the hardest one. Another interesting aspect is that Ferrari could make the tyres last as Mercedes did so I have big doubts to judge that Ferrari was faster.
IF, Vettel didn't have his good start compared to Mercedes, he couldn't have win. That simple.

Toto was not saying Ferrari did not deserve. He was saying if the mistakes/misfortunes didn't happen in last races they would have won all. and, I agree with that.
In all that analysis that Mark Huges has done, he didn't speak a word about how the unusual 53 degree track temperature played a role in Silverstone, both in Qualifying and in Race. With these PIRELLI tyres being such a big factor in performance difference between Merc and Ferrari, a good amount of research into understanding who the higher temperatures favored, would have provided better insight into the ultimate pace of cars.
Man, don't wanna sound like a hater, but never listen to Mark Hughes has to say. Word salad is all he speaks. Inconsistent with his analysis, one day is one thing next day is the other.
Wroom wroom

Roman
Roman
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Coming back to the race:

Wheather Update: After a long period of hot dry wheather a low pressure zone will pass over southern germany this weekend with more huminidty and possible rain showers and thunderstorms. Air and track termperatures will be substantially higher today than on Saturday and Sunday.

Today it should remain dry and warm, maybe some clouds in the sky. Tonight chances of rain and thunderstorms. Approx 30 degrees max.

Similar weather on Saturday: Colder with more clouds and chances of thunderstorms and rain showers (which can be strong) with the highest probability around noon/early afternoon. At the moment nobody can say with certainty that it will or will not rain as nobody knows where (if there are any) exactly a thunderstorm will form. Approx 24 degrees max

Sunday again similar, however the risk of thunderstorms decreases. Approx 25 degrees max.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Nice, waiting for some great shots of the Ferrari PU. =D>

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Image

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F1NAC
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Location: CRO

Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Nice lap from VET. Only 2 tenths off on softs to HAM on US

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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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Aero guys - any thoughts on those final shots of the Williams with the flow-viz paint?
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#Aerogorn & #Flowramir

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Vasconia
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Re: 2018 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 20-22

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RB looking faster than in Silverstone, its a pity that Ricciardo must begin the race last.