2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Vanja #66 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:03 am

MtthsMlw wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:36 am
How do you get this number? I would say Vettel Pole but not by more than 2 tenths.
Toto claimed 7 tenths power advantage for Ferrari at one point, Germany I think.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by NathanOlder » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:03 am

MtthsMlw wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:36 am
iotar__ wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:54 am
Ferrari will annihilate the competition with their ~0,7 s power advantage.
How do you get this number? I would say Vettel Pole but not by more than 2 tenths.
Merc ran more downforce in Spa, so taking the S1 and S3 times from Spa as a predictor is crazy.

I wish people would stop using the S1 at Spa to predict a Monza result. Merc wont be running any extra wing at all for this one.

ps Toto just playing his usual mind games
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LM10
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by LM10 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:25 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:03 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:36 am
iotar__ wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:54 am
Ferrari will annihilate the competition with their ~0,7 s power advantage.
How do you get this number? I would say Vettel Pole but not by more than 2 tenths.
Merc ran more downforce in Spa, so taking the S1 and S3 times from Spa as a predictor is crazy.

I wish people would stop using the S1 at Spa to predict a Monza result. Merc wont be running any extra wing at all for this one.

ps Toto just playing his usual mind games
I’m curious about the RW Mercedes will bring to Monza. They will surely go with less downforce this time.

Having said that, I’ve asked myself why they even ran more downforce at Spa. Did they think that they would have gotten pole by that setup? But then again, they must have known that this would have made them vulnerable against the Ferrari on the long straight. Or did they think they could have managed to build a gap in S2 to keep Ferrari at the back? Another explanation would be that they were confident enough about their Spec 3 gains.
For me, it didn’t make sense at all, though.

Phil
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Phil » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:32 am

Tire degradation. More downforce, more consistent wear. To tackle blistering.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by MtthsMlw » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:33 am

LM10 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:25 am
I’m curious about the RW Mercedes will bring to Monza. They will surely go with less downforce this time.

Having said that, I’ve asked myself why they even ran more downforce at Spa. Did they think that they would have gotten pole by that setup? But then again, they must have known that this would have made them vulnerable against the Ferrari on the long straight. Or did they think they could have managed to build a gap in S2 to keep Ferrari at the back? Another explanation would be that they were confident enough about their Spec 3 gains.
For me, it didn’t make sense at all, though.
Could also have to do with tyre managment and traction (still didn't work out for them). I got the feeling that they had high hopes in the spec 3 engine but were disappointed but thats just my opinion.

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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Phil » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:01 am

If one looks at how the Force Indias pulled alongside Hamilton on the same straight on lap1 realises how powerful the tow is/was. I honestly think Mercedes did a good jump forward this weekend with the Spec3. With equal downforce, they might have been rather identical on the straights, but probably to the detriment of tire wear.

I think Monza will be closer if not in Mercedes favor. And it will be important, because Singapore definitely wont be.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by WaikeCU » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:07 am

Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:01 am
If one looks at how the Force Indias pulled alongside Hamilton on the same straight on lap1 realises how powerful the tow is/was. I honestly think Mercedes did a good jump forward this weekend with the Spec3. With equal downforce, they might have been rather identical on the straights, but probably to the detriment of tire wear.

I think Monza will be closer if not in Mercedes favor. And it will be important, because Singapore definitely wont be.
This, I don't understand. It was rather cold at Spa, so I thought it would favor the Merc, but even then with the added downforce, Lewis was still blistering the rear tires at the end of his first stint on those SS.

So they have problems in hot weather and now they also blister in rather cold weather. I think they really have big tire wear issues right now compared to Ferrari.

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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Phil » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:12 am

I think the tire was only possibly an issue on the SS and evidently, both Hamilton and Vettel were pushing. Vettel because he needed to ensure a large enough gap not to be undercut, Hamilton to remain close enough. This put the tires on the first stint under quite some strain. Probably just a combination of track layout, surface, tire compound. and car characteristic. Also, both did more laps than expected on the SS than what Pirelli predicted. No point in stopping too early and getting into traffic.

I think it’s safe to assume that overall, the Ferrari always had a slight advantage with tire degredation, so Mercedes do need to slightly compromize their set-up. On some tracks more so than others. By how much probably depends on track layout, tire compound, surface and temperature.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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sosic2121
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by sosic2121 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:21 am

iotar__ wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:54 am
"Mercedes to discuss Valtteri Bottas support role after Monza"
Maybe they will discuss it for 2019 :D

He's been clear no.2 since he came to Mercedes, which is perfectly fine.

But the cr*p that we her from Mercedes is incredible.
IMO Valtteri has no.2 in his contract.

Same thing was probably offered to Daniel....

I honestly believe it's time for Ferrari to dump Kimi(and his No.1,5 status) and get Leclerc as no.2 driver.
Or to dump both of them and get Alonso and finally win something 8) :D

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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by sosic2121 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:39 am

Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:12 am
I think the tire was only possibly an issue on the SS and evidently, both Hamilton and Vettel were pushing.
"What followed were a series of highly competitive laps, with differences very tiny until on lap 26, Hamilton suddenly lost a full second, followed by another 0.7s loss in the next lap. This increased the gap up to 3.8s, back to where they were before the stops. Radio messages revealed that blistering was causing Hamilton to lose some performance, an issue that seemed not to affect the Ferrari driver."
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by F1NAC » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:58 am

NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:03 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:36 am
iotar__ wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:54 am
Ferrari will annihilate the competition with their ~0,7 s power advantage.
How do you get this number? I would say Vettel Pole but not by more than 2 tenths.
Merc ran more downforce in Spa, so taking the S1 and S3 times from Spa as a predictor is crazy.

I wish people would stop using the S1 at Spa to predict a Monza result. Merc wont be running any extra wing at all for this one.

ps Toto just playing his usual mind games
I think Lewis could snatch it if they put Bottas in front for tow. Will see if Ferrari will do similar tactics

pantherxxx
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by pantherxxx » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:50 pm

The factor that most surprised Mercedes and that is literally making the Germans "crazy" is the traction that Ferrari manages, to generate out of corners and in the first part of the straights. Mercedes continue to think that Ferrari using something very borderline. The SF71H of Vettel between the exit of curve 1, and the one from the last chicane that introduces on the short straight starting line could gain an average of 3 tenths on the W09 of Hamilton. If that is the case, in Monza there will be no chance for Hamilton and Bottas.

LM10
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by LM10 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:16 pm

@Phil and MtthsMlw: Thanks for the answers. That makes sense.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Hammerfist » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:17 pm

pantherxxx wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:50 pm
The factor that most surprised Mercedes and that is literally making the Germans "crazy" is the traction that Ferrari manages, to generate out of corners and in the first part of the straights. Mercedes continue to think that Ferrari using something very borderline. The SF71H of Vettel between the exit of curve 1, and the one from the last chicane that introduces on the short straight starting line could gain an average of 3 tenths on the W09 of Hamilton. If that is the case, in Monza there will be no chance for Hamilton and Bottas.
That is how I see it too. Monza is a slam dunk Ferrari track. It's all about traction and straight line speed there. Everyone will be running low downforce. Only rain or reliability can stop them there imo.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by foxmulder_ms » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:19 pm

I don't understand why everyone is so downbeat abut Mercedes after Spa. They were basically equal speed with Ferrari. They just lacked the burst of speed which Ferrari can maintain for like 5-10 seconds. Otherwise they are almost identical. In my opinion if Vettel couldn't have passed at the 1st straight it would have stayed stagnant. Therefore, I don't have favorite for this race. It is a coin flip.