2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Sierra117 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:50 pm

WaikeCU wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:00 am
Sierra117 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:14 am
alexx_88 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:07 am
I think Nico deserves that praise. He didn't settle with a comfortable #2 (like Bottas is doing right now) and pushed Lewis really hard while working with, what a lot of us agree to be, less natural ability. What he did, the hard work he put in and how he covered absolutely everything through ungodly amounts of preparation is a really nice story of success and how the underdog can fight his way through.
The problem became that their rivalry began to split the team. Bottas also did not have the childhood friendship/rivalry with Lewis that causes that driving force to compete so fiercely, so the team is in much more harmony as there is no history. Perhaps if these two stay together for the next few years, they'll build up enough of a relationship to create a more serious rivalry, so it doesn't make sense to say Bottas is settling for #2 when it's only his 2nd year working with Lewis in a new team.

I would also argue that he's not "settling" for #2. He hasn't managed to beat Lewis recently so now, with half the season over, he's naturally and mathematically in a #2 spot. And as many have said several times before, it's a team sport so at a certain point the team result becomes #1 priority. Especially now when Ferrari and Mercedes are closely matched. I much rather prefer team vs team than the eventually-self-destructive teammate vs teammate.
Off-topic:
I think Bottas' problem is that he's just not as fast as the likes of Hamilton, Vettel and Max at the moment. So if I was him, I would just make the best of it, since he's driving perhaps (one of) the fastest cars of the grid. I think he's a great 'team' person to have with in a team, a great worker, driver and a loyal one. I think all teams could use a driver like him. So if Merc are happy with him and Lewis is happy with him, Bottas should not make a fuss about being 2nd driver and just drive that Merc. It's his best chance of getting some race wins under his belt at the very moment. He's the Finnish David Coulthard, Eddie Irvine or Gerhard Berger imo. Kind of reminds me of Kovalainen during Lewis' Mclaren days, but a lot faster than him.
Bottas has proven that he's as fast as anyone out there by getting poles and winning the moment he got into Merc. Comparing him to the likes of Vettel, Max and Hamilton is once again too soon right now because this is his 2nd year driving a Merc. Meanwhile, Max, Vettel and Hamilton have been in their cars for much more time now. Who knows what other reasons there are but by winning in his 1st year, Bottas has proven he's not a slouch. As we all know, if the car itself is having setup issues, then the best driver will be severely limited.

Also, I'd personally not include Max in these comparisons. He's fast because he just throws it all in, which is also how you end up with all these crashes and altercations he ends up in all the time. I'm sure if Bottas adopted the same "my way or the highway" approach, he'd be much faster as well.

I think Bottas is going to spend some time just observing and learning from Lewis and then we'll suddenly see him get really good.

Either way, like all things, time will tell. But so far it all works well for the Mercedes machine and if the Mercedes machine is going along happily, then no need to fix if it ain't broke, right?
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TAG
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by TAG » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:23 pm

Schuttelberg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:43 am
TAG wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:39 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:34 am
Is it just me or does anyone else feel Rosberg is absolutely desperate to be heard ever since he hung up his helmet?
He was called courageous because he left the sport to spend time with his wife and family.
Well, I'm no one to judge his personal life or what he does in it. I just find it a bit low of him to go about dissing his peers after he decided to quit. He knows the sport, it's pressures and how it must feel to have people analyse you with a microscope 24*7.

May be I am wrong, but it just tastes really bad coming from him.
People tell you who they are, some just don't want to see it. We can go back to the discussions after he parked his car on the escape road in Monaco on the second Q3 run.
Countdown to 91: 7 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by WaikeCU » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:36 pm

Schuttelberg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:26 am
I love how Nico gives his 'insights' on Lewis' psychology. I also love how he gives him backhanded compliments. It almost feels like he's stroking his own ego. He won his championship, good on him but there's no need to be a prick in his retirement days. F1 is awfully more exciting with Hamilton and Vettel fighting for wins and championships than when he was fighting Lewis. Personally, he loses respect every time he opens his mouth these days.
Hmmm... Does that actually make me prick as well if I agree with Nico's opinions in his vlogs?

I mean come on. Rosberg is living his life now as a youtuber/vlogger/analyst and you just call him a prick based on his analysis on one race. I bet you he knows more about what it takes to be an F1 driver, a championship contender and what it takes to become world champion.

Sieper
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Sieper » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:52 pm

I have seen over the last days it is actually very possible to call people whatever you want if you don't agree with their views. Prick seems like one of the nicest options in that field. Wear it with pride (although the prick was not aimed at you directly (but your reasoning seems sound) it is a bit scary though, right :-D, pricks getting aimed)

Rosberg' is now an employed columnist, his livelihood now is to write columns. Yes he stirs the pot a bit, yes I don't always agree with everything he says. My main critique is the he really seems to be a stir of the moment kind of guy. Actually that was also how he raced, nothing wrong with it though, let them come, he is certainly entitled to an opinion. If assholes can have opinions then so can pricks.

Sieper
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Sieper » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:08 pm

Are you saying he is a cucumber rather then a prick?

WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by WaikeCU » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:00 pm

Fulcrum wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:15 pm
Vettel was a cucumber this weekend, that's for sure.
Are you saying cats are afraid of Vettel? :lol:

Okay enough of this off-topic nonsense.

I really enjoyed this GP. We saw the fastest lap ever in F1 beaten three times in a row, masterful and intense racing and perfect teamwork, drama and the excitement of the tifosi, the magic of Monza. Hope Singapore lives up to this.

Sieper
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Sieper » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:28 pm

It WAS a good GP, tight qually fight, the tension of possible weather changes (that did not happen but could have), daring overtakes, drama, lots of fighting for position all over the field. Not too big difference in time between contenders, interesting inter team tactical fights. Tires driven almost to shreds. I feared a borefest but this GP really delivered. yet a lot of what we then have on the forum are day long namecalling and overstatements and yes insults. Much better to appreciate also what we received, a quite nice race on a track where this does not happen all the time.

SuperCNJ
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by SuperCNJ » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm

This was a really good race, one of the very few in modern F1 where you get to see cars following closely behind lap after lap. I don't recall the last time Hamilton was able to follow another car around 1sec for so many laps in a Merc. A well deserved win for Hamilton but a part of me also wanted Kimi to win.

I think the only thing that spoiled it for me was Tony Ross's instruction to Bottas after the race to run in formation "to show our Italian colleagues"... I don't mind running in formation to celebrate, but knowing that the radio messages were going to be aired and saying that for me was completely unnecessary and was akin to rubbing salt in Ferrari's wounds... which is not how Mercs operate imo... yeah it may have been a bit of light banter but Tony Ross just seemed wrong...

dans79
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by dans79 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:42 pm

SuperCNJ wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
I think the only thing that spoiled it for me was Tony Ross's instruction to Bottas after the race to run in formation "to show our Italian colleagues"... I don't mind running in formation to celebrate, but knowing that the radio messages were going to be aired and saying that for me was completely unnecessary and was akin to rubbing salt in Ferrari's wounds... which is not how Mercs operate imo... yeah it may have been a bit of light banter but Tony Ross just seemed wrong...
It's corporate warfare, no better way to win then getting under your opponents skin, and unnerving them.

F1NAC
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by F1NAC » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 pm

dans79 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:42 pm
SuperCNJ wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
I think the only thing that spoiled it for me was Tony Ross's instruction to Bottas after the race to run in formation "to show our Italian colleagues"... I don't mind running in formation to celebrate, but knowing that the radio messages were going to be aired and saying that for me was completely unnecessary and was akin to rubbing salt in Ferrari's wounds... which is not how Mercs operate imo... yeah it may have been a bit of light banter but Tony Ross just seemed wrong...
It's corporate warfare, no better way to win then getting under your opponents skin, and unnerving them.
And then race later when they lose they're bitching around like they are in midfield... or raise some conspiracy theories in media and stirring stuff

Gr1ff
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Gr1ff » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:53 pm

F1NAC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 pm
dans79 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:42 pm
SuperCNJ wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
I think the only thing that spoiled it for me was Tony Ross's instruction to Bottas after the race to run in formation "to show our Italian colleagues"... I don't mind running in formation to celebrate, but knowing that the radio messages were going to be aired and saying that for me was completely unnecessary and was akin to rubbing salt in Ferrari's wounds... which is not how Mercs operate imo... yeah it may have been a bit of light banter but Tony Ross just seemed wrong...
It's corporate warfare, no better way to win then getting under your opponents skin, and unnerving them.
And then race later when they lose they're bitching around like they are in midfield... or raise some conspiracy theories in media and stirring stuff
Translate what Sebastian said in the radio message after the British gp and you will see why they did that in Italy.

https://youtu.be/6rfvd7dmyjQ

Schuttelberg
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Schuttelberg » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:02 pm

WaikeCU wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:36 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:26 am
I love how Nico gives his 'insights' on Lewis' psychology. I also love how he gives him backhanded compliments. It almost feels like he's stroking his own ego. He won his championship, good on him but there's no need to be a prick in his retirement days. F1 is awfully more exciting with Hamilton and Vettel fighting for wins and championships than when he was fighting Lewis. Personally, he loses respect every time he opens his mouth these days.
Hmmm... Does that actually make me prick as well if I agree with Nico's opinions in his vlogs?

I mean come on. Rosberg is living his life now as a youtuber/vlogger/analyst and you just call him a prick based on his analysis on one race. I bet you he knows more about what it takes to be an F1 driver, a championship contender and what it takes to become world champion.
No, because you've not been in the position he's been in. A few races back he was hammering on something about Lewis. Now it's Seb. It was low then and it's low now. If someone had to do a thesis on how he performed from 2014-16 and put it out there, he would feel the pinch (specially a colleague). It's very different from you and I putting it out there. He's a WDC. Every word of his carries more power, so to speak. I apologise if I offend you but I don't get the logic of him rambling on and giving driving lessons every week. He wasn't the brightest kid in the classroom.
Last edited by Schuttelberg on Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

dans79
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by dans79 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:03 pm

Gr1ff wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:53 pm
F1NAC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 pm
dans79 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:42 pm


It's corporate warfare, no better way to win then getting under your opponents skin, and unnerving them.
And then race later when they lose they're bitching around like they are in midfield... or raise some conspiracy theories in media and stirring stuff
Translate what Sebastian said in the radio message after the British gp and you will see why they did that in Italy.

https://youtu.be/6rfvd7dmyjQ
yep!
thanks guys here at their home
now we bring the English flag to Maranello

zibby43
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by zibby43 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:12 am

F1NAC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 pm
dans79 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:42 pm
SuperCNJ wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
I think the only thing that spoiled it for me was Tony Ross's instruction to Bottas after the race to run in formation "to show our Italian colleagues"... I don't mind running in formation to celebrate, but knowing that the radio messages were going to be aired and saying that for me was completely unnecessary and was akin to rubbing salt in Ferrari's wounds... which is not how Mercs operate imo... yeah it may have been a bit of light banter but Tony Ross just seemed wrong...
It's corporate warfare, no better way to win then getting under your opponents skin, and unnerving them.
And then race later when they lose they're bitching around like they are in midfield... or raise some conspiracy theories in media and stirring stuff
You mean like when Maurizio criticized Merc this past weekend for using Bottas how they did in Italy (He said something like, "We hire drivers, not road blocks")? Which is especially comical when Ferrari has literally done the exact same thing (except much more often with Kimi) over the past few years.

Or how about when Vettel said over the radio in Britain that they were taking the English flag to Maranello?

It's a rivalry now. Let's appreciate and recognize the passion on both sides.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:07 am

Fulcrum wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:05 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:34 am
Is it just me or does anyone else feel Rosberg is absolutely desperate to be heard ever since he hung up his helmet?
It's just you.
No it's not.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"