2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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f1316
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Max was pessimistic about being on Ferrari’s level in Singapore - he spoke about the straights where they’ll lose a lot of time. RB have actually been further away from the ultimate pace since Canada than before, so I think they also wouldn’t have such an advantage at Monaco today as they did in May (or whenever it was) - Ferrari and Mercedes have heavily upgraded their chasses as well as their engines.

Which is not to say they won’t be in the hunt for pole but I suspect Ferrari, especially Vettel, will be too - for me, the question mark is Mercedes whose worst track even in the dominant years was Singapore; as I said before, their race pace last year ended up being good, but I think that owed a lot to w drying/low grip track. I suspect they could again be the third best car in Singapore, at least in quali.

Also, I don’t buy for a second that Ferrari suddenly ‘eat’ their tyres - the soft tyres blister more in hot conditions because they don’t wear much, so the heat can’t dissipate; with Kimi (and Seb for that matter) having to push hard for a sustained period right at the start of their stints, this causes the blisters.

Kimi is also just not capable of being at the leading pace throughout a Grand Prix distance any more - we’ve seen that time and again through his stint at Ferrari, and to some extent during his previous one (remember in 2009 when he’d suddenly do a fastest lap at the end of races? Where was that pace before?); so it’s no surprise he can’t lead the charge vs Hamilton who’s extracting the maximum lap after lap - I very much doubt Kimi would have stretched the gap to Lewis in Spa either.

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Phil
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Restomaniac wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 17:19
Ferrari seemed to have decided that the Mercedes way is best.
It's not the "Mercedes way". Just because Ferrari optimised their car by going longer doesn't mean they have opted for Mercedes aero approach and changed their philosophy. They haven't. The Ferrari is still a very different car, with different characteristics, aka, different strengths.

On a bumpy street track such as Monaco and Singapore, the biggest differentiator isn't the length of the car, but the amount of rake and spring of the car (aka traction).
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Phil wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 18:19
Restomaniac wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 17:19
Ferrari seemed to have decided that the Mercedes way is best.
It's not the "Mercedes way". Just because Ferrari optimised their car by going longer doesn't mean they have opted for Mercedes aero approach and changed their philosophy. They haven't. The Ferrari is still a very different car, with different characteristics, aka, different strengths.

On a bumpy street track such as Monaco and Singapore, the biggest differentiator isn't the length of the car, but the amount of rake and spring of the car (aka traction).
A longer wheelbase against a shorter wheelbase on a tight twisty track favours the shorter wheelbase almost every time.

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Phil
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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I said biggest differentiator, not none. And you'll find the corners and chicane to be not that short that the wheelbase difference makes a huge difference. Mercedes said as much in 2017 when they were confronted with exactly this question in regards to their performance at Monaco.

EDIT: The difference last year between the two cars was 14cm according to F1.com.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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thetruth
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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IMHO.
RedBull not so strong here in Singapore.
Mercedes not so weak.
There will be surprises.

dfegan358
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Joined: 29 May 2018, 02:16

Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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After Monaco people were predicting Red bull to be mighty quick in Hungary, less power sensitive and more twisty track.

In the practice in dry conditions they seemed well off the pace of Ferrari.

Think this year every track is unpredictable and so many variables can affect relative performance. I’m sure Ferrari will be hoping red bull can help take points of Mercedes.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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I am a pessimist about Redbull. I think we will see fight between Ferrari and Mercedes.

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Juzh
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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dfegan358 wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 19:27
After Monaco people were predicting Red bull to be mighty quick in Hungary, less power sensitive and more twisty track.

In the practice in dry conditions they seemed well off the pace of Ferrari.
Hungary still has 2 proper straights, which was more than enough for ferrari to gain something like 6-7 tenths on average in that sector. I guess that's also the reason Verstappen is saying they will still lose significant amount on the engine side even in singapore.



The difference is quite insane actually.

GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Merc and Ferrari tyre choices are really interesting. Merc being among the most lavish on the softs and having the fewest hypersofts;, while Ferrari is the opposite, being among the group with the fewest softs and lavish with the hypersofts.

It would seem that Ferrari either believes it can do a better job at conserving the hypersofts (assuming a dry weekend) ... Or they are going banzai for pole position.

Mercs choices seem to hint that they believe they can switch the softs and ultra's on pretty quickly and are leaving options open for a one stopper with hypersoft > soft.
Last edited by GrandAxe on 11 Sep 2018, 00:09, edited 1 time in total.

Jolle
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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GrandAxe wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 23:55
Merc and Ferrari tyre choices are really interesting. Merc being among the most lavish on the softs and having the fewest hypersofts;, while Ferrari is the opposite, being among the group with the fewest softs and lavish with the hypersofts.

It would seem that Ferrari either believes it can do a better job at conserving the hypersofts (assuming a dry weekend) ... Or they are going banzai for pole position.

Mercs choices seem to hint that they believe they can switch the softs and ultra's on pretty quickly and are leaving options open for a one stopper with hypersoft > soft or hypersoft > ultrasoft.
Well, prob in Mercedes case they won’t go for pole because they think Ferrari will beat them on pace anyway so they go for a less compromised race setup.
They can go full Q setup and loose the first row by two tenths or go for a more race balanced setup and loose pole with 6 tenths but have a chance in the race. Ferrari gone for ultimate Q pace with these tires. The only gamble for Mercedes will be if they can beat RedBull with the setup in Q or not.

Nickel
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Juzh wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 22:57
dfegan358 wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 19:27
After Monaco people were predicting Red bull to be mighty quick in Hungary, less power sensitive and more twisty track.

In the practice in dry conditions they seemed well off the pace of Ferrari.
Hungary still has 2 proper straights, which was more than enough for ferrari to gain something like 6-7 tenths on average in that sector. I guess that's also the reason Verstappen is saying they will still lose significant amount on the engine side even in singapore.

https://streamable.com/02gmr

The difference is quite insane actually.
i dunno, that red bull looked a handful just about everywhere comparatively speaking. Kimi definitely already had a big margin by t1, but it's not like Danny made up any ground in the twisty bits.

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yelistener
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Juzh wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 22:57
dfegan358 wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 19:27
After Monaco people were predicting Red bull to be mighty quick in Hungary, less power sensitive and more twisty track.

In the practice in dry conditions they seemed well off the pace of Ferrari.
Hungary still has 2 proper straights, which was more than enough for ferrari to gain something like 6-7 tenths on average in that sector. I guess that's also the reason Verstappen is saying they will still lose significant amount on the engine side even in singapore.

https://streamable.com/02gmr

The difference is quite insane actually.
Kimi was helped by the slipsteam before T1. Usually RB is about 10kph lower top-speed-wise. 19kph is just too much. Slipstream difinitely played a role there.

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Juzh
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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yelistener wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 08:39
Juzh wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 22:57
dfegan358 wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 19:27
After Monaco people were predicting Red bull to be mighty quick in Hungary, less power sensitive and more twisty track.

In the practice in dry conditions they seemed well off the pace of Ferrari.
Hungary still has 2 proper straights, which was more than enough for ferrari to gain something like 6-7 tenths on average in that sector. I guess that's also the reason Verstappen is saying they will still lose significant amount on the engine side even in singapore.

https://streamable.com/02gmr

The difference is quite insane actually.
Kimi was helped by the slipsteam before T1. Usually RB is about 10kph lower top-speed-wise. 19kph is just too much. Slipstream difinitely played a role there.
there was maybe a few seconds of slipstream for kimi in this lap and it was well over before any kind of top speed was achieved. And this kind of difference was present on all fast laps, not just this one.

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yelistener
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Joined: 25 Aug 2018, 03:55

Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Juzh wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 08:56
yelistener wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 08:39
Juzh wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 22:57

Hungary still has 2 proper straights, which was more than enough for ferrari to gain something like 6-7 tenths on average in that sector. I guess that's also the reason Verstappen is saying they will still lose significant amount on the engine side even in singapore.

https://streamable.com/02gmr

The difference is quite insane actually.
Kimi was helped by the slipsteam before T1. Usually RB is about 10kph lower top-speed-wise. 19kph is just too much. Slipstream difinitely played a role there.
there was maybe a few seconds of slipstream for kimi in this lap and it was well over before any kind of top speed was achieved. And this kind of difference was present on all fast laps, not just this one.
I did some search and I think you're right. 2018 speed trap Lewis and Kimi both were clocked 317km/h while last year both 311. A rare case that 2018 is higher. But RB stayed the same, 308 in 2017 & 2018.
I guess Ferrari and Mercedes chosed a relatively low downforce aero set, which gave them some extra km/h at the end of the straight. RB's 307km/h before turn 1 is v8 type of top speed lol

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2018 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 14-16 September

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Leclerc move will put VET under additional pressure. No way this will work out for him. Repeat of last year incoming?
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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