2018 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, 28 - 30 September

[drunkf1fan]

He certainly put together the better lap in qualifying, but Ham was over 3/10ths up on Bottas, if he didn't screw up that one corner it's extremely likely that he makes a mockery of competition with Ferrari and Bottas. He was probably on course for finishing 0.4-0.5 seconds up on Bottas but was so comfortable rather than do a safer S2 he was trying a mega one.

[Just_a_fan]

I am neither surprised nor angry.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were. Your post was a convenient one to tag my general comments to. Agreed that what would otherwise have been a win in front of both title protagonists makes him driver of the day. Max's run through the field is, sadly, nothing special these days and he finished about where you might have expected him to. No real surprise.

[Shrieker]

Win shouldn't have been taken away from Bottas that way. He fully deserved it. Maybe Mercedes intend to wrap up the titles early and pay him back, but nevertheless I feel it shouldn't have been like this. Until the finish line I fully expected Hamilton to move over and give back Valtteri what was his'. Hamilton in a way has done a disservice to himself as well, by shadowing what was an excellent move on his chief title rival, showing him up once again. But this team order thingy I see has given much ammunition to his hater/detractor base. I don't think they're going to lose sleep over it tho. 50 points is pretty much game over for Vettel and Ferrari, they need all the wins plus a no score for Hamilton now - which is extremely unlikely.

[TAG]

Win shouldn't have been taken away from Bottas that way. He fully deserved it. Maybe Mercedes intend to wrap up the titles early and pay him back, but nevertheless I feel it shouldn't have been like this. Until the finish line I fully expected Hamilton to move over and give back Valtteri what was his'. Hamilton in a way has done a disservice to himself as well, by shadowing what was an excellent move on his chief title rival, showing him up once again. But this team order thingy I see has given much ammunition to his hater/detractor base. I don't think they're going to lose sleep over it tho. 50 points is pretty much game over for Vettel and Ferrari, they need all the wins plus a no score for Hamilton now - which is extremely unlikely.

I hope you felt just like that... worse even when it was Ferrari/Schumacher doing it.

[PlatinumZealot]

https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status ... 0136218624

mmmK.... so now it’s ok to toy with a competitors car!? I guess Ferrari wouldn’t mind if Lewis hopped into the no. 5 and see if he can figure out what all the dry ice is about while it’s in Parc Fermé?

I guess if you can't touch your openents car none said you cannot touch the tyres! lol

But seriously what are the rules about this?

[zeph]

I am neither surprised nor angry.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were. Your post was a convenient one to tag my general comments to. Agreed that what would otherwise have been a win in front of both title protagonists makes him driver of the day. Max's run through the field is, sadly, nothing special these days and he finished about where you might have expected him to. No real surprise.

Gotcha, no worries. If it wasn't for some rotten luck early in the season, Bottas might well have mounted a credible title challenge. But to beat Hamilton he'd have to dig as deep as Rosberg did.

Win shouldn't have been taken away from Bottas that way. He fully deserved it. Maybe Mercedes intend to wrap up the titles early and pay him back, but nevertheless I feel it shouldn't have been like this. Until the finish line I fully expected Hamilton to move over and give back Valtteri what was his'. Hamilton in a way has done a disservice to himself as well, by shadowing what was an excellent move on his chief title rival, showing him up once again.

Yeah, I think it would have been nice if HAM had given it back to BOT, but that was unrealistic in this stage of the championship.
If anything, Hamilton's move on Vettel has me convinced the Mercedes is now the quicker car. Ferrari may have had the advantage before the sumer break, but that overtake doesn't happen unless you have something extra in your backpocket.

[Shrieker]

I hope you felt just like that... worse even when it was Ferrari/Schumacher doing it.

Shades of A1 '02, sure. But I found it extremely retarded at the time (and still now), since it looked like Schumacher didn't have any opposition whatsoever, and it turned out to be the case. At least this season Hamilton has a main rival he must fend off, unlike Schumacher at the time. One other thing to note, in US GP of that year, Schumacher let Rubens past at the finish line to gift him the win (repay of sorts), but it looked farcical and didn't do them any favors in terms of pr. Likely Merc. will attempt the same if they find the chance, but it won't be nearly as good as a deserved win. But then again there's the title situation - double edged sword.

But hey, at least Hamilton didn't try awkwardly pushing Bottas on the top step

[PlatinumZealot]

I am neither surprised nor angry.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were. Your post was a convenient one to tag my general comments to. Agreed that what would otherwise have been a win in front of both title protagonists makes him driver of the day. Max's run through the field is, sadly, nothing special these days and he finished about where you might have expected him to. No real surprise.

Gotcha, no worries. If it wasn't for some rotten luck early in the season, Bottas might well have mounted a credible title challenge. But to beat Hamilton he'd have to dig as deep as Rosberg did.

Win shouldn't have been taken away from Bottas that way. He fully deserved it. Maybe Mercedes intend to wrap up the titles early and pay him back, but nevertheless I feel it shouldn't have been like this. Until the finish line I fully expected Hamilton to move over and give back Valtteri what was his'. Hamilton in a way has done a disservice to himself as well, by shadowing what was an excellent move on his chief title rival, showing him up once again.

Yeah, I think it would have been nice if HAM had given it back to BOT, but that was unrealistic in this stage of the championship.
If anything, Hamilton's move on Vettel has me convinced the Mercedes is now the quicker car. Ferrari may have had the advantage before the sumer break, but that overtake doesn't happen unless you have something extra in your backpocket.

Yeah when it comes down to it both are are very close. It about who masters the tyres better. Since singapore Mercedes has unlocked something in how they handle the rear tyres which Ferrari have not. I am very pleased with this because this means Mercedes is competitive in all speeds and grip levels now. Ferrari needs to unlock something for themselves if they want to fight back. Their engine is still stronger and they do have more peak downforce.. Perhaps the suspension and brake ducts/wheels is where they need to look too.

[dfegan358]

The notion Ferrari had the fastest car I think was definitely exaggerated. At spa Ferrari maybe had tiny advantage.
Spa suited the car and Vettel got great tow up Eau Rouge and was able to control the race.
Since then Mercedes have improved and overtaken Ferrari with a far more distinct advantage in my opinion.
I’m a Ferrari fan and I hate to say it but I think it’s true.

[digitalrurouni]

What I still don't get is why Red Bull didn't put Hypersofts on Verstappen and let him go all out? What did they have to lose? And super disappointed in Mercedes in swapping the cars. They should have given Bottas back the position on the last lap or something like that. I guess Toto is justified from an investment point of view but really I still don't agree. If I was in Toto's shoes I would have had the cars swap back or not even had team orders be imposed in the first place! Way to handle it like a gentleman Bottas. Not bad either by Hamilton.

[Shrieker]

The notion Ferrari had the fastest car I think was definitely exaggerated. At spa Ferrari maybe had tiny advantage.
Spa suited the car and Vettel got great tow up Eau Rouge and was able to control the race.
Since then Mercedes have improved and overtaken Ferrari with a far more distinct advantage in my opinion.
I’m a Ferrari fan and I hate to say it but I think it’s true.

It wasn't exaggerated - I think that particular weekend Hamilton and the team went wrong with the setup/took a gamble for rain with high DF config. The result of that was getting blitzed on the straight by Vettel. Up and coming to Monza Ferrari had the faster car weekend in weekend out for a good 4-5 races. They didn't capitalize on it. And Merc have clearly bounced back and now have the better car as evidenced by their 1-2 here both in quali and the race. And to a degree in Singapore too.

[ringo]

To me, driver of the day is Bottas. He would have comfortably won this race.

I think Bottas was slow right before the switch. Vettel came within 1.5s of hamilton. Lewis had to decide between overtaking Bottas or defending from Vettel. In fact if Rosberg was in the next car Lewis would have attacked a long time a go. Toto did the right thing in switching the cars. As for switching back near the end, i believe the fighting backmarkers prevented them from switching back cleanly.
Also from a championship perspective.. 10 points gap versus 3, which one to take as team principal?
What do you say if the leader gets 2 dnf in the next 5 races?

In some ways Toto did the right thing given the circumstances and the pressure. Ferrari would have done it 5 times in the next five races to give vettel a chance. It's sad for Bottas, but if he wasn't showing weakness following Max, he would have kept the lead. Anyhow i think like last year, if Lewis wins in USA or mexico, they will detune his engine and let Bottas win the last 2 races.

[Jolle]

To me, driver of the day is Bottas. He would have comfortably won this race.

I think Bottas was slow right before the switch. Vettel came within 1.5s of hamilton. Lewis had to decide between overtaking Bottas or defending from Vettel. In fact if Rosberg was in the next car Lewis would have attacked a long time a go. Toto did the right thing in switching the cars. As for switching back near the end, i believe the fighting backmarkers prevented them from switching back cleanly.
Also from a championship perspective.. 10 points gap versus 3, which one to take as team principal?
What do you say if the leader gets 2 dnf in the next 5 races?

In some ways Toto did the right thing given the circumstances and the pressure. Ferrari would have done it 5 times in the next five races to give vettel a chance. It's sad for Bottas, but if he wasn't showing weakness following Max, he would have kept the lead. Anyhow i think like last year, if Lewis wins in USA or mexico, they will detune his engine and let Bottas win the last 2 races.

If Hamilton takes the title before the last race, he will be less sharp anyway. He never won a race after he became WC in the same year.

[Phil]

Speaking of strategy and team-orders... some thoughts.

Critical Question: Were Mercedes really that conflicted about the orders given?

Given they could have switched back at the end, my initial opinion was 'no'. However, if the plan had been from the beginning to ensure that Hamilton gets the maximum result, they could have simply boxed him first, before Bottas. They could have even explained their reasoning rather simple: They were under threat by Vettel who was 2 seconds behind Lewis and there was a bigger margin to Bottas in the lead at that point. Box Hamilton first to protect against the undercut by Vettel, then box Bottas the lap after or monitor the gap to Vettel. If Vettel boxes, box Bottas later. Worst case; They lose 2nd to Vettel, but protect Hamilton. Best case; They run in 1-2, in the correct order. Easy. A bit masked but totally reasonable and logical. No media fallout, no awkward celebrations, no difficult questions to answer. Job done.

Yet they didn't. Why? By not doing it this way, they compromised Lewis's position, which he did end up losing. He only regained it, because Vettel used up much of his ERS on that outlap and then had little to defend against Lewis later.

My hunch - is that there could be some truth that there are some concerns over reliability. Either a gearbox or engine related. If this is indeed the case, it could explain, why they decided to switch position mid race and then not switch back again before the end. Assuming this is correct, as a team, you would definitely want to mask this so that your competitors don't know about it until it's clear.

As I said, if the goal was from the beginning to have Hamilton win the race to score the maximum gap to Vettel, they could have done much more plausible by simply boxing him first.

[ringo]

Yes i agree the decision may have evolved through the race.
The camera man did a nice shot zooming in on Toto's finger over the "tactics" button.
Looks like that's the ole switcheroo team orders button. Haha.