2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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ringo
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Good race. I think i like the race at monza with kimi vs lewis just as much.
Kimi driver of the race for me. He made his own luck by slowing down hamilton and telling the team not to "do anything stupid" with the strategy.

Hamilton seems to be at another level when it comes to spacial awareness. I was suprised he did not hit Max at all also how well he predicted where max was going to place the redbull. He was also hunting down kimi earlier in the same way. Almost like a shark circling a whiff of blood. Anyhow the gamble mercedes made didnt pay off but it may have been the best thing they could have done as looking at bottas' race they tyres wouldnt have lasted on a one stop. So good on lewis to get a podium.


Max is definitely the real deal. The kid is blisteringly fast. Also does have very good combat skills. Also i am confused by the redbull and how it manages the tyres so well. I was expecting them to go off at lap 48. But the car made the SS tyres look never ending. Reminds me of back in the vettel days eith how long these cars can go on softer tyres. Max had the pressure on the whole race and and made bottas look retarded. He did well to come second. The renault engine isnt as bad as he says though. Its good enough. But the chassis is amazing.. wonder if they made the right choice going to honda next year?
For Sure!!

tranquility2k4
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Shrieker wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:41 pm
Congrats to Kimi, he didn't put a foot wrong. His start was perfect, and although it didn't look like much at the time, his defense on very worn ultras against Hamilton was key. He not only held his position, but prevented Hamilton from gaping him; moreover, he backed Hamilton into the pack, which was crucial since it ended up putting cars between him and Hamilton, especially Verstappen.

Merc strategy on the other hand wasn't bad, despite the fact that some fans are bashing them over it. Where they failed to get a hint strategy wise was when Hamilton on much better tires couldn't get past Kimi in the first stint. They should've opted for track position, which was possible by pitting the next lap after Kimi. Worst case they'd have retained 2nd and not fallen behind Max, which would've given Hamilton 34 laps to chase and pressure Kimi into an error - not that it looked like he'd have made one today. Their second mistake was extending their 2nd stint too much and falling behind Max (rookie pitwall mistake), when they had a window of 10+ laps to pit and still come out ahead of him.
To me the obvious strategy when Lewis caught up Kimi and couldn't get by was to pit him and undercut Kimi at that point, I don't see the difference in doing this compared to him attempting to do that if he'd of not pitted under the VSC. He was effectively going to be mirroring Kimi's strategy but he'd of had track position as Kimi was super slow at that point. I don't think Lewis had much worse Deg than Kimi it's just his first set of softs blistered due to pushing so hard. Even prior to the VSC Lewis was close to Kimi so they had more pace.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:49 pm

They didn't have any real race, hamilton was never going to put himself anywhere near verstappen without 100% guaranteeing easy overtake. When it got close hamilton backed out of it and even drove completely off the track lol, how is that not a bad racecraft in this particular case? He wasn't even trying.
You know as much about overtaking as Vettel! :lol:

Hamilton gave Max room on the inside, so that they wouldn't touch (looking at you Seb!) but ended up on the marbles off line so understeered outwards. Max was clever and made Hamilton give him a bit more room than he needed. Hamilton was agressive in trying to overtake but careful. Result: no spin, no impact, no damage. Everyone enjoyed the moment, no one did a #-o like they did on lap one... :wink:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Shrieker
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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tranquility2k4 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:01 pm
To me the obvious strategy when Lewis caught up Kimi and couldn't get by was to pit him and undercut Kimi at that point, I don't see the difference in doing this compared to him attempting to do that if he'd of not pitted under the VSC. He was effectively going to be mirroring Kimi's strategy but he'd of had track position as Kimi was super slow at that point. I don't think Lewis had much worse Deg than Kimi it's just his first set of softs blistered due to pushing so hard. Even prior to the VSC Lewis was close to Kimi so they had more pace.
Which makes it a bit of a throw, doesn't it ? IF I were them, I sure would've taken the VSC stop as well. It was too good to pass up at that point. I do believe they made the mistake(s) later ( not under/overcutting Kimi's stop, or staying out too long on blistered softs).
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Shrieker
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:04 pm
Hamilton gave Max room on the inside, so that they wouldn't touch (looking at you Seb!) but ended up on the marbles off line so understeered outwards. Max was clever and made Hamilton give him a bit more room than he needed. Hamilton was agressive in trying to overtake but careful. Result: no spin, no impact, no damage. Everyone enjoyed the moment, no one did a #-o like they did on lap one... :wink:
Hamilton was a bit tentative around Max, wasn't he ? Max's 'bad boy' image seems to have worked (too bad), since if was that someone else, Hamilton would've risked going a bit tighter to avoid dirt on the outside. But with Max it's just not worth it since that kid can make you fly at 250+ kph and not feel an ounce of responsibility for doing it.

Must be said tho he did a great job coming from 18th on the grid to end up in 2nd.
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ringo
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Hamilton was tentative because vettel was behind.
For Sure!!

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Shrieker wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:09 pm

Hamilton was a bit tentative around Max, wasn't he ?
He was definitely playing it safe, but that is partly why he is where he is. He's one of the best / the best in wheel to wheel racing. Knowing when to give room is just as important as knowing when to brake later than the other guy. "Know your enemy" as the saying goes.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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gandharva
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Last edited by gandharva on Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:13 pm
Shrieker wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:09 pm

Hamilton was a bit tentative around Max, wasn't he ?
He was definitely playing it safe, but that is partly why he is where he is. He's one of the best / the best in wheel to wheel racing. Knowing when to give room is just as important as knowing when to brake later than the other guy. "Know your enemy" as the saying goes.
Exactly. There was a race last year (Which one however escapes me) in which Verstappen was on fresh tyres and Hamilton knew he was coming and pretty much waved him through. Like I say it’s the case of seeing the bigger picture and knowing when and where to push your luck.

Let us be honest Hamilton can stick his elbows out with the best of them (Mexico last year against Alonso as one example) but it’s just being selective as to where and against whom.
Last edited by Restomaniac on Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

GrandAxe
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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If Lewis move on Max had happened early in the race before the formation of so many marbles, it would have been "job done, bye, everyone go home" and we would have been talking about another brilliant overtake instead.

The real point to take home though, is that Max can be overtaken in a keen battle without as much as the slightest scratch. Vettel and Bottas just don't know how.
Last edited by GrandAxe on Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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GrandAxe wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:22 pm
If Lewis move on Max had happened early in the race, before the formation of so many marbles, it would have been "job done, bye, everyone go home" and we would have been talking about another brilliant overtake instead.

The real point to take home though, is that Max can be overtaken in a keen battle without as much as the slightest scratch. Vettel and Bottas just don't know how.
However when it’s became clear that Hamilton had lost grip his reaction was correct. That being let the place go and take the gradual line and live to fight another day. No snatching of a brake of an overcorrection just play it smooth.

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Bomber_Pilot
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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This race made my day :D Merry International Everybody Happy for Kimi Day (credit to turbof1) :D

Restomaniac
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Bomber_Pilot wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:28 pm
This race made my day :D Merry International Everybody Happy for Kimi Day (credit to turbof1) :D
Oh hell yes.

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gandharva
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Edax
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Re: 2018 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 19-21 October

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:13 pm
Shrieker wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:09 pm

Hamilton was a bit tentative around Max, wasn't he ?
He was definitely playing it safe, but that is partly why he is where he is. He's one of the best / the best in wheel to wheel racing. Knowing when to give room is just as important as knowing when to brake later than the other guy. "Know your enemy" as the saying goes.
Even then I am surprised how much risk Hamilton is still willing to take.

Other champions like Mansell and Hill would at this point mainly be focussing on keeping things together and would have happily become third. But you see he still wants to go for those poles and the wins. I think that suits him.

With VES I also got the feeling that there is some mutual respect. VES kept his lines pretty tight through those corners giving HAM plenty of space.