2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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F1NAC wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:30
what was the difference for him? Finish 15th or 14th (don't know exactly what position was he on )
14th and at the time he was over 2 seconds a lap faster than the 3 cars in front of him and 8 seconds behind them.
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F1NAC
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Still don't put him in the points then.... yet he ruined the race win

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dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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F1NAC wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:37
Still don't put him in the points then.... yet he ruined the race win
You need to think more long term. Rain was a strong possibility, and with that comes a high probability of a safety car and people timing their pitstops incorrectly, or just plain old crashing. He could have easily found himself in 7th, 8th, or 9th if the rain arrived.
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TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Ok, regardless of rule entitlement, do you think it is justified to have contact with the race leader? Do you believe Ocon was on the inside? Was he in front there? Could he have pulled out? Was his advantage permanent or just for 2/3 laps? Opinions here are so "Haha I love to see Verstappen suffer" that I'm seriously considering never to return here.

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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dans79 wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:32
TwanV wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:25
Yeah but can you imagine that Ocon was even there? Ocons race pace a lap down half way through the race, unlapping justified? Just mindblowingly dumb.
He just came out of the pits, and was much faster than Max, because he was on brand new SS. He is 100% entitled to pass the leader and unlap himself. Ocon had like 3/4ths of his car along side Max entering Turn 2, and max left him zero room that's why they collided.
This is probably the grey area: do the same rules apply on lapped cars unlapping themselves? Or does the unlapping have to happen with absolutely no hindrance to the other car? This is not clearly defined, and should be clearly defined for future reference.

Oh for the record, I dug up this jewel:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/feat ... uzuka.html
dans79 wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:16
You are assuming that the person serving the time has the traits to learn from and be effected by such events. Imo, he will serve his time, and probably have even more contempt for the FIA, stewards, and other drivers than he currently displays.

This quote from Max screams narcissistic personality.
https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/11/ver ... -a-winner/
“I don’t care what those people say,” said Verstappen. “I’m a winner. You get taken out like that, to get a stupid response from his side as well, I was not happy about that.”
His team principle should be keeping him away from the press and sitting him down and telling him to shut his mouth before he makes it any worse. Instead, Horner is all but justifying max's actions.
I think it will give him perspective. Are you saying a race ban would have given him less contempt towards the FIA then being confronted of the consequences of violence? Also, you are taking his actions and words too much at face value. He was clearly still in the red mist. He should have shown have restraint, he should not have pushed Ocon, but let's wait with making assumptions out of this particular instance until he atleast calmed down. You are quick to act judgemental over his personality here.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Another thing I'd like to add after watching the onboard from Ocon. Why the Hell was Max defending going in to T1. That costs time, and in turn put ocon on the outside and then inside for T2.

Why the hell does he defend from a car a lap down with better tyres and more power ?!?!
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Sieper
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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He spent his fresh new tires on chasing the race lead down.

Max should have just let him by, even If it would have cost him 2 3 seconds. Then in another few laps Ocon’s tires would have been done and the much faster RBR would have been at his tail again. Now Ocon got what he wanted.

bill shoe
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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FIA rules on racing do not distinguish between what is allowed in a fight for position vs. unlapping oneself. So an interpretation of Ocon being at fault must depend on some assumption of logic and competitive-integrity that applies in addition to the written rules.

Max V. is the consumate driver-lawyer who has consistently charted new territory in competitive advantage by precisely ignoring any common-sense logic or integrity, and using the rules as written to the fullest extent allowed.

Max doesn't think it's fun when this same standard gets used on him. Reality bubble.

nacho
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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A bit confused why VER moved left before the braking to turn 1.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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nacho wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:53
A bit confused why VER moved left before the braking to turn 1.
Yeah as I pointed out a few mins ago. He can't let a backmarker through, as he will feel he's losing ?? What a joke. Max heading the same was as Seb, he's just not won anything and he's already heading for the scrap heap. Another Marko monster out of control
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

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TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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turbof1 wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:44
dans79 wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:32
TwanV wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:25
Yeah but can you imagine that Ocon was even there? Ocons race pace a lap down half way through the race, unlapping justified? Just mindblowingly dumb.
He just came out of the pits, and was much faster than Max, because he was on brand new SS. He is 100% entitled to pass the leader and unlap himself. Ocon had like 3/4ths of his car along side Max entering Turn 2, and max left him zero room that's why they collided.
This is probably the grey area: do the same rules apply on lapped cars unlapping themselves? Or does the unlapping have to happen with absolutely no hindrance to the other car? This is not clearly defined, and should be clearly defined for future reference.

Oh for the record, I dug up this jewel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBHrMqLD3o
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/feat ... uzuka.html
dans79 wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:16
You are assuming that the person serving the time has the traits to learn from and be effected by such events. Imo, he will serve his time, and probably have even more contempt for the FIA, stewards, and other drivers than he currently displays.

This quote from Max screams narcissistic personality.
https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/11/ver ... -a-winner/
“I don’t care what those people say,” said Verstappen. “I’m a winner. You get taken out like that, to get a stupid response from his side as well, I was not happy about that.”
His team principle should be keeping him away from the press and sitting him down and telling him to shut his mouth before he makes it any worse. Instead, Horner is all but justifying max's actions.
I think it will give him perspective. Are you saying a race ban would have given him less contempt towards the FIA then being confronted of the consequences of violence? Also, you are taking his actions and words too much at face value. He was clearly still in the red mist. He should have shown have restraint, he should not have pushed Ocon, but let's wait with making assumptions out of this particular instance until he atleast calmed down. You are quick to act judgemental over his personality here.
Thanks for this Turbo, shows some perspective. Seems I am alone here apparently, but I wouldn't have shown the same restraint as Verstappen today I believe. I'm truly upset Haha, what a sport. Come on people, if you have Hamilton on your tail for the race win you don't want to get sidetracked by Ocon as race leader, there's no sense letting him by, I don't think max for a moment thought he would really try (badly) to unlap himself too.

apexcontrol
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:58
nacho wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 00:53
A bit confused why VER moved left before the braking to turn 1.
Yeah as I pointed out a few mins ago. He can't let a backmarker through, as he will feel he's losing ?? What a joke. Max heading the same was as Seb, he's just not won anything and he's already heading for the scrap heap. Another Marko monster out of control
well just wait and see for next year, maybe redbull/honda give max a decent car like merc/fer
just cant wait.
then marko's monster will truly get unleashed. is gonna be quite the exposing season.
what will happen if the monster will get a car on par with a merc.

this gonna be spectacular, and not because of the bla bla fans fans fans

TwanV
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Joined: 28 Sep 2015, 17:41

Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Stewards of the meeting sum it up nicely: 'The Stewards determined that he failed to complete the pass at turn one, and as a lapped car, fought the leader for track position, causing the collision at turn 2 with the race leader.' the end.

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Sieper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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What happened here is a backmarker purposely killing the race lead. How long would Ocon have been able to stay in front of Max even If he could make it stick, which he couldn’t hence the 10 second stop and go. (The Gravest penalty bar a Black flag). The only thing is you cant prove the intent, otherwise it would have been a Black flag. But Max will have learned from it. It is very clear from Ocon onboard what he was doing. Next time Max will see it coming.

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AnthonyG
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Joined: 03 Mar 2012, 13:16

Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TwanV wrote:
12 Nov 2018, 01:02

Thanks for this Turbo, shows some perspective. Seems I am alone here apparently, but I wouldn't have shown the same restraint as Verstappen today I believe. I'm truly upset Haha, what a sport. Come on people, if you have Hamilton on your tail for the race win you don't want to get sidetracked by Ocon as race leader, there's no sense letting him by, I don't think max for a moment thought he would really try (badly) to unlap himself too.
Your thinking is flawed, Ocon would have gotten a blue flag if Max would reclose the gap later on. No reason not to let Ocon pass.

Max is just in puberty. :)
Thank you really doesn't really describe enough what I feel. - Vettel

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