2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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zeph
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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sosic2121 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:11 am
nzjrs wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:09 pm
TwanV wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:05 pm
I haven't seen Verstappen's push just finished watching the race.. But I can't believe people here are saying it somehow is max fault for being hit by a backmarker. Get your act together people, it's a cardinal sin. Ocon should be happy not to have a one race ban, just terrible.
Video of Ocon hunting down Verstappen

https://streamable.com/0bynn
Dear lord!

I think penalty was appropriate, but they gave it to the wrong guy #-o

Max even defend the inside against a lapped car! ROFL
That’s my view as well. I don’t know how you can watch that video and conclude otherwise. Ocon made a credible passing move and Verstappen unnecessarily shut the door on him.

Ocon needed to maximize the pace on his fresh tires and Verstappen should have just let him through, he wasn’t racing him.

I thought they were both at fault, but now I’m inclined to lay the blame squarely on Verstappen.

Shakeman
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I listened to the race on the radio and it's only now that I've seen the official F1 race highlights. Well the Ocon 'spearing' of Verstappen was certainly a massive exaggeration. At worst is was a racing incident and if anyone should've been penalised it should've been Verstappen for driving into Ocon as it was his driving inputs that put his car on a trajectory to collide with the car behind. You cannot expect a car to just disappear out of thin air no matter if you're in the lead of the GP or not.

Just a short while ago we saw Lewis attack Verstappen at Austin giving him a barn door's width and consequently Lewis ended up in the marbles, Verstappen clearly doesn't have the necessary braincells for a very simple risk/reward scenario. Lewis would not have got involved with a back marker like this, look back to Singapore where he came up on the gaggle of backmarkers fighting which allowed Verstappen to close to a car length. Who came away with a win that day too?

Verstappen and he alone threw away that win yesterday. Horner and Marco should tear a strip off him it'll be good for his future career but I just get the impression Verstappen is not one to listen as we've heard willfully ignore team orders to think about the race result.

There's no question he's fast but being really really fast is not good enough to pull off a WDC without the racing and strategic intelligence that all the very top drivers show on their way to the WDC. Verstappen's 'thing' appears to be get in my way and I'll crash into you which won't win WDCs.

wesley123
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TwanV wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:25 pm
Yeah but can you imagine that Ocon was even there? Ocons race pace a lap down half way through the race, unlapping justified? Just mindblowingly dumb.
Ocon was much quicker than Max at that point in the race. And when he tried to unlap himself he was around the outside, in a position Max certainly would have seen him. And now, some people are surprised that Ocon was still there for T2, like he would magically disappear because Max Verstappen is leading the race. And that is 'mindblowingly dumb'. You can say all you want about Ocon, but as the race leader to take the corner as if you're driving alone there, expecting a car that was next to you less than a second ago to magically disappear, that brings a whole new level of stupid.

In the end of the day Verstappen lost the race because of what HE did, had he taken a wider line through T2, nothing would have went wrong.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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henry
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:53 am
ringo wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:53 am
Lewis had the pace to delay the overtake till after the pitstops. Good win. He managed to win in the 3rd fastest car today. Max binned it.
Which is what Hamilton was trying to tell him, in a roundabout way, in the cool down room. Also why Max should listen and not say that it's easy to say things when you're second. You win races and then titles by being quick and by controlling risks. The repass by Ocon was a risk, the way to win the race is to let him go and get on with your own race. Risk removed, win assured. Everyone would say "mature drive by Max, future world champion" - instead, they're saying "hot head", "immature", "stupid".
I agree with every word. One would hope that Max will see this as a learning experience, look back at the incident, consider the advice of a 5 time world champion and see that he could have taken a different course of action and ensured a win, for himself and for the team that bust a gut to give him such an excellent car.

Time will tell how quickly, if ever, this sinks in. Hamilton learned what a Masters Degree in Preparedness can lead to when Rosberg beat him to the title.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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turbof1 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:03 am

Outside that incident, he actually did a marvelous race. He had the right amount of agression with the correct amount of risk assessment the whole time, exceeeppptt for one moment.
Oh indeed so. Up to that point, Max was looking like the real deal, quick, decisive in his overtaking, carrying pace whilst looking after the tyres etc. He was cruising to a well earned victory. And then...
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Shakeman
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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henry wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:13 am
Time will tell how quickly, if ever, this sinks in. Hamilton learned what a Masters Degree in Preparedness can lead to when Rosberg beat him to the title.
I don' think preparedness won Rosberg the title rather than the reliability between both sides of the garage.

However, Rosberg's preparedness did give Lewis the fight of his life for several seasons and he made absolutely sure he got everything out of his talent and data.

I was thinking would we ever see a fiercely fought clean race like Rosberg and Lewis in Bahrain 2014 with Verstappen and A.N.Other driver? I just can't see it, part of close racing is the respect you have for the other driver and I don't see Verstappen having much respect for anyone other than his entitled self.

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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Shakeman wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:43 am
Rosberg and Lewis in Bahrain 2014
That was just poetry! One of my all-time favourites.
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santos
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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After the race, Max really showed why he is a an idiot. He may be a talented driver, althought not very smart… and he lost the first place because of that.

marvin78
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I wrote it several times: Verstappen should have stayed in minor classes before F1. There are some things you do not learn in F1. The minor classes are just for that and he missed the lessons. It's not sure he would have learned it there but than he is really just noch worth a F1 seat.

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henry
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Shakeman wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:43 am
henry wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:13 am
Time will tell how quickly, if ever, this sinks in. Hamilton learned what a Masters Degree in Preparedness can lead to when Rosberg beat him to the title.
I don' think preparedness won Rosberg the title rather than the reliability between both sides of the garage.

However, Rosberg's preparedness did give Lewis the fight of his life for several seasons and he made absolutely sure he got everything out of his talent and data.

I was thinking would we ever see a fiercely fought clean race like Rosberg and Lewis in Bahrain 2014 with Verstappen and A.N.Other driver? I just can't see it, part of close racing is the respect you have for the other driver and I don't see Verstappen having much respect for anyone other than his entitled self.
I believe that it was Rosberg’s preparedness that allowed him to take advantage of the reliability discrepancy. See my sig.

Hamilton appears to have taken that on board and has demonstrated an ability to maximise his performance this year against an opponent with at times better equipment. He is as close to a mix of Senna’s qualifying speed and Prost’s relentless race pace as we’re likely to see.

It isn’t essential to learn these lessons, if you have far away the best car you can win despite mistakes. But if it’s close you have to maximise every opportunity. We’ve been seeing this in the midfield this year. Drivers leap out of the way of the Division 1 cars because that’s how they minimise time loss to the cars they are actually racing against.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I still believe you're all mad haha, as if Hamilton would ever let Ocon pass without any objection. It's all so constructed these arguments. How some are blaming this accident on VES is alien, it was a clumsy set of moves by both in turn 1 but by all that is sensible you would have to admit that in the universe of motorsport there is a special place in hell for backmarkers that take out race leaders.

I don't think any here appreciate how close Hamilton was to VES' tail at that point, on tires that in theory should've held out better towards the end of the race. Ocon had 0.0000 business getting involved there. Apparently he had a very slow pitstop and Force India basically tried to compensate for their mistake by letting Ocon have a go at the race leader.
Last edited by TwanV on Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Starscreamer
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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santos wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:08 am
After the race, Max really showed why he is a an idiot. He may be a talented driver, althought not very smart… and he lost the first place because of that.
He was [probably] holding himself. I had punched Ocon in the face!!! I give Verstappen 100% right.
Ocon is a complete idiot in this case. Why is Max always the guilty one #-o
Last edited by Steven on Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: You are entitled to your opinion, but not so much if that means evoking emotional reaction of others.
#33 2 THE MAX V3RSTAPP3N

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Starscreamer
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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marvin78 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:13 am
I wrote it several times: Verstappen should have stayed in minor classes before F1. There are some things you do not learn in F1. The minor classes are just for that and he missed the lessons. It's not sure he would have learned it there but than he is really just noch worth a F1 seat.
Lets have also minor classes for Schumacher, Senna & Piquet!
Not worth a F1 seat #-o man your blind!
#33 2 THE MAX V3RSTAPP3N

marvin78
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Why do you have to be Hamilton Fan to think this was completely silly by Verstappen even if you think Ocon did not the right thing? Verstappen could avoid this to win the race. He did not and did a stupid thing. He often does such things and really needs to learn to be a champion. And yes, I think Hamilton would have let Ocon go. You do not know, because you cannot loock in the heads but it is just the smart move.

And I am not a fan of any driver.

marvin78
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Starscreamer wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:22 am

Not worth a F1 seat #-o man your blind!
I think it's just because I am not biased in any way.