2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:50 am
TwanV wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:13 am
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:44 pm


God! I cannot believe Ocon got penalized for this. It is Ves who caused the accident.
So strange that you see that and I see the exact opposite. A lapped driver trying to overtake in turn two and taking the race leader out in the process. His wheels are nowhere near in front. Why do you people keep defending this guy?

If this was for position I might be inclined to think somewhere down the line that this is a race incident due to poor racecraft by young drivers. But for heavens sake this is P16 failing to safely overtake and taking out the race leader... I must be living in a parallel universe or something, how is this in any way ambivalent?
STOP SAYING P16 FOR CHRIST SAKE!!!!!

The facts were, he was P10 when he pitted, he came out the pits on the lead lap in P14, he was 12 seconds behind Sainz. After his first flying lap (behind Max) he was 8.7 behind Sainz, Hartley who inherited P10 had not stopped at that point so is due to stop, Gasly was only 0.5 in front of Sainz who were both running on 20/17 lap old Mediums, and Perez was in P11 on new softs. Perez madeit to P10 and Ocon would have had got to P11 for sure and is in position to inherit points if 1 or more cars retire!

Please stop this blatant BS about P16 , no chance of points ect .

And Ocon didn't take the leader out, The Leader drove straight in to a back marker who was rightfully unlapping himself and it all got complicated when Max didnt have the brain capacity to see the big picture. He let history get in his way and couldn't let it go, and in turn he let the win go.

Jos Verstappen took a leader out 17yrs ago!!
In the end Nathan, you can go around in circles all you want, the fact is he was a lap down. And Max shouldn't even need to spend any brain capacity on this, Ocon should've handled it much better and he didn't. Don't know what Jos Verstappen has to do with anything, desperate argument? Why not just say: Meh I don't like this Verstappen guy, I'm happy that he didn't win. Finito.

TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:51 am
strad wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 am
This is so simple. From where Max got hit you can tell he had a large overlap on Ocon. That means he had the right to the line he chooses and that Ocon must yield. That is why Ocon got penalized.
This would mean what Schumacher did to Hill in 1994 was Hill's fault !?! Hill should have got a penalty and Schumacher was punted out the race!
Total nonsense, Hill didn't see Schumacher crash so he assumed that was his chance. It was a pretty desperate move by any account. Sadly, he is my hero, but he should've waited, if he only knew.

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Godius
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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GrandAxe wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:49 am
strad wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 am
This is so simple. From where Max got hit you can tell he had a large overlap on Ocon. That means he had the right to the line he chooses and that Ocon must yield. That is why Ocon got penalized.
No, it means both had equal right to the corner. See C. Attacker approximately half-way alongside. The relevant extract is below:

https://f1metrics.files.wordpress.com/2 ... =640&h=480
In this case, the attacker’s front axle is ahead of the defender’s rear axle and the two cars are approximately halfway alongside. Both drivers have a reasonable claim to the apex. If contact occurs, blame will have to be shared. It is in this zone that racing incidents can occur. Ayrton Senna was famous for creating situations just like this, as both attacker and defender, where the other driver would have to decide whether or not to yield to avoid a collision.

Note that this is a not a new or controversial set of guidelines. For example, here is essentially the same set of rules presented in The Williams-Renault Formula 1 Motor Racing Book, published back in 1994.
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08 ... of-racing/

Max played chicken with Ocon and lost.

As two other fools here have found out this regulation does not exist in the fia formula 1 sporting regulations anymore. And if it still would have existed it would not count because the place where the incident happened 'Senna s' is not on a straight and not a braking area.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I predict that this situation will occur again and that it will be Max with someone else. Max will lose out again, possibly a title next time rather than a simple win.

Max won't have learned because his behaviour to other drivers is constantly reinforced by the team and the FIA.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:50 am
I predict that this situation will occur again and that it will be Max with someone else. Max will lose out again, possibly a title next time rather than a simple win.

Max won't have learned because his behaviour to other drivers is constantly reinforced by the team and the FIA.
That´s the problem, he is like a spoiled child and he is backed especially by the team, is the same problem if you back your child when he is doing a stupid thing.

TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:50 am
I predict that this situation will occur again and that it will be Max with someone else. Max will lose out again, possibly a title next time rather than a simple win.

Max won't have learned because his behaviour to other drivers is constantly reinforced by the team and the FIA.
And I will predict that it will be Ocon with somebody else. :lol: O wait he doesn't have a seat next year, we'll have to wait to find out.

TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Vasconia wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:55 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:50 am
I predict that this situation will occur again and that it will be Max with someone else. Max will lose out again, possibly a title next time rather than a simple win.

Max won't have learned because his behaviour to other drivers is constantly reinforced by the team and the FIA.
That´s the problem, he is like a spoiled child and he is backed especially by the team, is the same problem if you back your child when he is doing a stupid thing.
VES is not a child, he is 21 years old.. And as if any team would not back their driver?

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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As usual with a case where we aren't floating towards a concensus, it's best to call it a day, agree to disagree and move on. There are enough other events to talk about.
#AeroFrodo

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iotar__
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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strad wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 am
This is so simple. From where Max got hit you can tell he had a large overlap on Ocon. That means he had the right to the line he chooses and that Ocon must yield. That is why Ocon got penalized.
As simple as 1+1=2 blocking moves Verstappen made in Baku :D or simpler?

Large overlap? He knew where Ocon was, right side in front braking, It's a combination of corners and he turned FFS, to block him and to stay in front, check the normal line of cars behind. When "Max got hit" (by Ocon) Ocon could not do anything about it. Two objects in the same place rule.

Ocon shouldn't have tried to overtake but collision itself was mostly Verstappen's doing through his "robot/god mode/ghost cars racing/close your eyes and think about RB's marketing department" =P~ approach.

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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I believe Max should've been at T2 the way the Ferrari was with him at T1 in the vid below at 02:36 (more or less):



Just a thought of course.

More importantly, can we safely say that Ferrari has been vastly more mechanically reliable this season than Mercedes? I can't recall any gremlins with them.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TwanV wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:38 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:51 am
strad wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:48 am
This is so simple. From where Max got hit you can tell he had a large overlap on Ocon. That means he had the right to the line he chooses and that Ocon must yield. That is why Ocon got penalized.
This would mean what Schumacher did to Hill in 1994 was Hill's fault !?! Hill should have got a penalty and Schumacher was punted out the race!
Total nonsense, Hill didn't see Schumacher crash so he assumed that was his chance. It was a pretty desperate move by any account. Sadly, he is my hero, but he should've waited, if he only knew.
My point was, Hill had every right to be there and it was Schumacher who was in the wrong , he turned in to Hill. You cant just take the racing line when a car is on your inside and has a large portion alongside your car. Schumacher tunring in on Hill was very similar to Max turning in on Ocon. Schumacher could almost be excused a little as he didnt have Hill alongside him for 200 meters like Max did with Ocon.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TwanV wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 am

In the end Nathan, you can go around in circles all you want, the fact is he was a lap down. And Max shouldn't even need to spend any brain capacity on this, Ocon should've handled it much better and he didn't. Don't know what Jos Verstappen has to do with anything, desperate argument? Why not just say: Meh I don't like this Verstappen guy, I'm happy that he didn't win. Finito.
I put the Jos bit in there so you could understand what taking the leader out looked like.

As for not liking Max, I don't need to say it, its obvious most people dont like Max as he behaves like a little brat and is very easy to dislike. As for him not winning, I was happy Lewis won rather than Max not winning, I found it flipping hilarious that Max tripped over yet another car and appears to learn nothing every time he gets in the car. At this rate, Max will go down in history as the kid who had every opportunity and never won a championship outside a Kart :lol: !
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AnthonyG
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Sierra117 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:01 am


More importantly, can we safely say that Ferrari has been vastly more mechanically reliable this season than Mercedes? I can't recall any gremlins with them.
Raikkonen has had a DNF due to Turbo failure.
They also had a faulty pitstop system that led to a DNF of Raikkonen because one of the wheel wasn't thightened.
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Sierra117
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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AnthonyG wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:04 pm
Sierra117 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:01 am


More importantly, can we safely say that Ferrari has been vastly more mechanically reliable this season than Mercedes? I can't recall any gremlins with them.
Raikkonen has had a DNF due to Turbo failure.
They also had a faulty pitstop system that led to a DNF of Raikkonen because one of the wheel wasn't thightened.
I mean more in terms of the engine itself. Merc have had multiple hydraulics failures and as we've heard their engines were basically in an unknown zone for this race. The turbo is the only one for Ferrari.
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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:10 am
TwanV wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:38 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:51 am


This would mean what Schumacher did to Hill in 1994 was Hill's fault !?! Hill should have got a penalty and Schumacher was punted out the race!
Total nonsense, Hill didn't see Schumacher crash so he assumed that was his chance. It was a pretty desperate move by any account. Sadly, he is my hero, but he should've waited, if he only knew.
My point was, Hill had every right to be there and it was Schumacher who was in the wrong , he turned in to Hill. You cant just take the racing line when a car is on your inside and has a large portion alongside your car. Schumacher tunring in on Hill was very similar to Max turning in on Ocon. Schumacher could almost be excused a little as he didnt have Hill alongside him for 200 meters like Max did with Ocon.
Just like what Michael did in Jerez, 1997 with Jacques.