2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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digitalrurouni wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:35 am
Anyone get the feeling that Bottas could only stay ahead becauase Hamilton floor damage?
Not in the least. Valtteri was on it and totally caught Lewis out.
That race was over after the first half lap.
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Diesel
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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TAG wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:56 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:37 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:35 am
Anyone get the feeling that Bottas could only stay ahead becauase Hamilton floor damage?
Not in the least. Valtteri was on it and totally caught Lewis out.
That race was over after the first half lap.
As we've seen in recent history, it's significantly easier to win a race from the front. Rather than being able to control the race from the front, Hamilton found himself being forced in to a race with Vettel which cost him any chance to challenging Bottas. There are many ways to win a race, but leading out of first corner is one of the most effective ways, all credit to Bottas for a decent start and a faultless race. I hope he can keep it up, the early Hamilton vs. Rosberg seasons gave us some great racing, hopefully Bottas can mount a similar challenge.
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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What i wonder is ... without the floor damage, would they have pitted Lewis to defend against a possibly undercut by Vettel?

He would have been further away from Vettel and closer to Bottas - so probably not?

Their standard tactic is to give the first stop to the leader but that would have carried the risk of a Lewis overcut ...

Maybe they even pitted him in order "to defend from Vettel" so they wouldn't have to worry about who to pit first (?)

Hammerfist
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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Lewis, these days if he sees that the win is not possible, (and it wasn't because he could not keep up with Bottas, due to the car issues), he just settles down and focus on finishing the race. I reckon he could have gone faster, but instead, he was going slowly on purpose, and that actually backed Vettel into Verstappen, and we know what happened after that. But Lewis's pace when Vettel was behind him compared to when Verstappen was behind him is vastly different. He chose to do the minimum to keep those guys behind him, and chose to conserve components. He has become such a different driver. Always thinking about the long game.

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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:25 am
What i wonder is ... without the floor damage, would they have pitted Lewis to defend against a possibly undercut by Vettel?

He would have been further away from Vettel and closer to Bottas - so probably not?

Their standard tactic is to give the first stop to the leader but that would have carried the risk of a Lewis overcut ...

Maybe they even pitted him in order "to defend from Vettel" so they wouldn't have to worry about who to pit first (?)
Well my impression is that they didn't know the floor was damaged until after the race was over, so...

In any case, they overeacted and overestimated Vettel's pace on the medium tire. Vettel was not going to undercut even if Lewis had stayed out. He struggled on the mediums, but Merc couldn't have possibly predicted that either.

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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I didn't spot this initally, but here's bottas absolutely bossing T11-12 on his second q3 lap:

https://streamable.com/jdc51


Because of a bit slower entry speed (5 kmh down on the straight) he almost takes it flat :wtf:

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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Hammerfist wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:59 am
Lewis, these days if he sees that the win is not possible, (and it wasn't because he could not keep up with Bottas, due to the car issues), he just settles down and focus on finishing the race. I reckon he could have gone faster, but instead, he was going slowly on purpose, and that actually backed Vettel into Verstappen, and we know what happened after that. But Lewis's pace when Vettel was behind him compared to when Verstappen was behind him is vastly different. He chose to do the minimum to keep those guys behind him, and chose to conserve components. He has become such a different driver. Always thinking about the long game.
I don't think he actively backed Vettel into Verstappen. He was just matching Vettels speed (like you were saying, after he got overtaken at the start there was no real chance to win the race anymore so save your engine etc. cruise mode). Because Vettel did not go faster after Max overtook him, he wasn't being backed up at all, he was already on his fastest possible pace and Lewis just matched that. When Max then overtook Seb Lewis increased his pace a bit (just as so Max could not even think about going for P2) to match the next runner up that was now on his tail. Still cruising but with slightly higher engine mode / more pace.
Last edited by Sieper on Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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Juzh wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:49 am
I didn't spot this initally, but here's bottas absolutely bossing T11-12 on his second q3 lap:

https://streamable.com/jdc51
https://streamable.com/jdc51

Because of a bit slower entry speed (5 kmh down on the straight) he almost takes it flat :wtf:
Jesus christ. I think thats the first year I've ever seen someone turn in like that.
Felipe Baby!

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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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SiLo wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:47 pm
Juzh wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:49 am
I didn't spot this initally, but here's bottas absolutely bossing T11-12 on his second q3 lap:

https://streamable.com/jdc51
https://streamable.com/jdc51

Because of a bit slower entry speed (5 kmh down on the straight) he almost takes it flat :wtf:
Jesus christ. I think thats the first year I've ever seen someone turn in like that.
He only had to scrub off 23 km/h for turn 11 and 12.

I have seen this kind of approach to 11/12 before. Hamilton 2012 pole lap:

Of course Hamilton had to scrub off much more speed and looked way less planted.
#AeroFrodo

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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Diesel wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm
TAG wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:56 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:37 pm


Not in the least. Valtteri was on it and totally caught Lewis out.
That race was over after the first half lap.
As we've seen in recent history, it's significantly easier to win a race from the front. Rather than being able to control the race from the front, Hamilton found himself being forced in to a race with Vettel which cost him any chance to challenging Bottas. There are many ways to win a race, but leading out of first corner is one of the most effective ways, all credit to Bottas for a decent start and a faultless race. I hope he can keep it up, the early Hamilton vs. Rosberg seasons gave us some great racing, hopefully Bottas can mount a similar challenge.
I agree with your point. But enlighten me. When Vettel got pitted why did that make him an immediate threat? Undercut? I mean if I was racing and this is from my PC F1 2017 experience (lol) if I have a faster car as the Mercedes has demonstrated...I would just haul ass at the beginning of the race and open up a gap and then I would be out of the threat of the undercut. So what if Vettel pitted early...I could keep circulating to about lap 20 or something then pit and then I have fresher tires and for the remainder of the race. I already opened up the gap so that shouldn't be a problem. I guess I don't understand the drive as slow as possible to win the race mentality.

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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digitalrurouni wrote:
Diesel wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm
TAG wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:56 pm
That race was over after the first half lap.
As we've seen in recent history, it's significantly easier to win a race from the front. Rather than being able to control the race from the front, Hamilton found himself being forced in to a race with Vettel which cost him any chance to challenging Bottas. There are many ways to win a race, but leading out of first corner is one of the most effective ways, all credit to Bottas for a decent start and a faultless race. I hope he can keep it up, the early Hamilton vs. Rosberg seasons gave us some great racing, hopefully Bottas can mount a similar challenge.
I agree with your point. But enlighten me. When Vettel got pitted why did that make him an immediate threat? Undercut? I mean if I was racing and this is from my PC F1 2017 experience (lol) if I have a faster car as the Mercedes has demonstrated...I would just haul ass at the beginning of the race and open up a gap and then I would be out of the threat of the undercut. So what if Vettel pitted early...I could keep circulating to about lap 20 or something then pit and then I have fresher tires and for the remainder of the race. I already opened up the gap so that shouldn't be a problem. I guess I don't understand the drive as slow as possible to win the race mentality.
Because Vettel could have been faster with new Medium tires than Hamilton in worn Soft tires... Which could have placed Hamilton behind Vettel after his pitstop... With as difficult as Melbourne is for passing and the probability of a Safety Car later in the race, it could have meant that Hamilton would have finished third... Why risk it? In regards to going faster in the first stint to open the gap, Fuel needs to also be taken into consideration since the cars don’t necessarily fill the tanks for the race and they need to race to a target time to ensure they make it to the end.

Pitting Hamilton was the safe decision and it was the right one considering that they finished 1-2 in the race


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digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:17 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Diesel wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm


As we've seen in recent history, it's significantly easier to win a race from the front. Rather than being able to control the race from the front, Hamilton found himself being forced in to a race with Vettel which cost him any chance to challenging Bottas. There are many ways to win a race, but leading out of first corner is one of the most effective ways, all credit to Bottas for a decent start and a faultless race. I hope he can keep it up, the early Hamilton vs. Rosberg seasons gave us some great racing, hopefully Bottas can mount a similar challenge.
I agree with your point. But enlighten me. When Vettel got pitted why did that make him an immediate threat? Undercut? I mean if I was racing and this is from my PC F1 2017 experience (lol) if I have a faster car as the Mercedes has demonstrated...I would just haul ass at the beginning of the race and open up a gap and then I would be out of the threat of the undercut. So what if Vettel pitted early...I could keep circulating to about lap 20 or something then pit and then I have fresher tires and for the remainder of the race. I already opened up the gap so that shouldn't be a problem. I guess I don't understand the drive as slow as possible to win the race mentality.
Because Vettel could have been faster with new Medium tires than Hamilton in worn Soft tires... Which could have placed Hamilton behind Vettel after his pitstop... With as difficult as Melbourne is for passing and the probability of a Safety Car later in the race, it could have meant that Hamilton would have finished third... Why risk it? In regards to going faster in the first stint to open the gap, Fuel needs to also be taken into consideration since the cars don’t necessarily fill the tanks for the race and they need to race to a target time to ensure they make it to the end.

Pitting Hamilton was the safe decision and it was the right one considering that they finished 1-2 in the race


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Thanks and yes I agree with the conclusion of course. And them blokes on the pit lane are MUCH much smarter than armchair me of course so they know what they are doing.

Here is what I am also trying to understand - yes it makes sense to underfed the car but then usually it seems like it would make sense to underfuel the car a bit less than what is the norm because everybody underfuels and lifts and coasts but if you want to be safe then you should probably want to lift and coast lesser than the other racers around you and have that pace advantage no?

Harvester
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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digitalrurouni wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:59 pm
Diesel wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm
TAG wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:56 pm


That race was over after the first half lap.
As we've seen in recent history, it's significantly easier to win a race from the front. Rather than being able to control the race from the front, Hamilton found himself being forced in to a race with Vettel which cost him any chance to challenging Bottas. There are many ways to win a race, but leading out of first corner is one of the most effective ways, all credit to Bottas for a decent start and a faultless race. I hope he can keep it up, the early Hamilton vs. Rosberg seasons gave us some great racing, hopefully Bottas can mount a similar challenge.
I agree with your point. But enlighten me. When Vettel got pitted why did that make him an immediate threat? Undercut? I mean if I was racing and this is from my PC F1 2017 experience (lol) if I have a faster car as the Mercedes has demonstrated...I would just haul ass at the beginning of the race and open up a gap and then I would be out of the threat of the undercut. So what if Vettel pitted early...I could keep circulating to about lap 20 or something then pit and then I have fresher tires and for the remainder of the race. I already opened up the gap so that shouldn't be a problem. I guess I don't understand the drive as slow as possible to win the race mentality.
Safety car possibility is the main reason they don't push immediately to create a gap. If there is safety car you just lose your advantage and have to continue racing with worse tires than your opponent.
The best strategy is to open up a gap of about 3 to 4 seconds and save the pace for the most critical part of the race and that would be few laps before and after pit stop.

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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Harvester wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:15 pm
digitalrurouni wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:59 pm
Diesel wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm


As we've seen in recent history, it's significantly easier to win a race from the front. Rather than being able to control the race from the front, Hamilton found himself being forced in to a race with Vettel which cost him any chance to challenging Bottas. There are many ways to win a race, but leading out of first corner is one of the most effective ways, all credit to Bottas for a decent start and a faultless race. I hope he can keep it up, the early Hamilton vs. Rosberg seasons gave us some great racing, hopefully Bottas can mount a similar challenge.
I agree with your point. But enlighten me. When Vettel got pitted why did that make him an immediate threat? Undercut? I mean if I was racing and this is from my PC F1 2017 experience (lol) if I have a faster car as the Mercedes has demonstrated...I would just haul ass at the beginning of the race and open up a gap and then I would be out of the threat of the undercut. So what if Vettel pitted early...I could keep circulating to about lap 20 or something then pit and then I have fresher tires and for the remainder of the race. I already opened up the gap so that shouldn't be a problem. I guess I don't understand the drive as slow as possible to win the race mentality.
Safety car possibility is the main reason they don't push immediately to create a gap. If there is safety car you just lose your advantage and have to continue racing with worse tires than your opponent.
The best strategy is to open up a gap of about 3 to 4 seconds and save the pace for the most critical part of the race and that would be few laps before and after pit stop.
Ah yes forgot about safety car. That makes sense. Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer my questions :)

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 15-17

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I read somewhere that the two Ferrari's had their PU's turned town for fear of overheating? People think this is a disaster but I am thankful that there was this issue because it's unfathomable for me that Honda has the same power as the Ferrari when they were nowhere last year. At least this means that once the issues are sorted, the cars have speed.

It is also incredibly exciting that Honda has progressed as much as they have and if Max and RB are to be believed, there's a lot more to come. Even if Horner is giving us 50% of the straight up dope he can give with unbelievable confidence, the Bulls are looking great.

I think Max and Seb can be as good and as special as Lewis on their good days. The reason Lewis has been the standout performer in his Mercedes days is because he has shone on days the car was tough. If these two can just accept that on certain weekends, the cars find their sweet spots, I think we can have a pretty special three way fight like 2010-12.

I personally never believed the gap to Ferrari and Red Bull just like I never believed the BS in testing that Mercedes was half a second off.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"