2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Harvester
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:03 am
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:12 pm
But what if they wanted the 'other' driver with 4 crowns to his name? :D
Vettel would most likely retire before he signed up to be a #2.
Why would he be the second driver. Don't you all say that mercedes doesn't have the first and the second driver.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:03 am
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:12 pm
But what if they wanted the 'other' driver with 4 crowns to his name? :D
Vettel would most likely retire before he signed up to be a #2.
Unless he was told Hamilton was driving his last year for them and he took a 3 year contract?
Not likely, but not impossible
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Vettel won't be driving for Mercedes. Ever. There's no sense in even entertaining the idea. Mercedes has Ocon and Russel from their junior program. If they were to sign a driver outside their own driver program, it would be for someone of similar age and talent and who would have marketing/PR value (think Verstappen). Hamilton isn't resigning either, not until 2020 anyway. Until then, there are still two seasons to go and a lot can change. Vettel's main concern will be to beat his team-mate consistently and convincingly.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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djones
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Hamilton has no wife, kids etc.

His entire focus and reason for being is racing.

I suspect he will not retire for a long time yet - probably 2025 or something.

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Phil wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:01 am
Vettel won't be driving for Mercedes. Ever. There's no sense in even entertaining the idea. Mercedes has Ocon and Russel from their junior program. If they were to sign a driver outside their own driver program, it would be for someone of similar age and talent and who would have marketing/PR value (think Verstappen). Hamilton isn't resigning either, not until 2020 anyway. Until then, there are still two seasons to go and a lot can change. Vettel's main concern will be to beat his team-mate consistently and convincingly.
I don't think Vettel will beat Leclerc convincingly. I thought so last year itself. I also don't think Vettel is the kind to throw in the towel. His dream to win in red has him too emotionally tangled. I think there is a case for him to move to Mercedes. The main reason I see for him quitting is him being fed up of F1 itself and all the hoopla that comes with it.

People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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djones wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:13 am
Hamilton has no wife, kids etc.

His entire focus and reason for being is racing.

I suspect he will not retire for a long time yet - probably 2025 or something.
I think he has said lots of times that he has other interests. Family is not his focus right now but things change really fast.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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I suspect Hamilton will retire when his current contract expires, especially if he has added another title or two to his haul. I can see Vettel going at the end of his contract too. Both expire at the end of 2020. I can see Vettel losing heart if he doesn't win the title this year. Both will probably think "time to get on with the rest of my life" as J Villeneuve once said.
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
I agree. I also don't think it will be the end of the world or end of careers if Leclerc beats Vettel this year. Vettel was beaten in 2014 as well, just as was Hamilton in 2011 and as Rosberg was in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Didn't stop Rosberg from being an extremely fierce competitor and put himself into a position to win the championship in 2016, DNF in Malaysia or not. If Leclerc beats Vettel this year, I'm convinced, it will only make Vettel a harder competitor next year around. There's one thing about being the perceived "number 1", the 4-time champ who's under pressure to lead the team and beat everyone - it's another to be perceived as an equal, an underdog. No doubt, the pressure to perform at Ferrari is immense and Vettel has some stuff to clear his mind of, but I do think ultimately, the pairing with an equally strong or stronger team-mate will have a positive effect on his racing and speed.

And from what I've heard in the team-radio to Vettel from Binotto, I think the team might be in its best place since a few years in how the team is being managed.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Phil wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:10 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
I agree. I also don't think it will be the end of the world or end of careers if Leclerc beats Vettel this year. Vettel was beaten in 2014 as well, just as was Hamilton in 2011 and as Rosberg was in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Didn't stop Rosberg from being an extremely fierce competitor and put himself into a position to win the championship in 2016, DNF in Malaysia or not. If Leclerc beats Vettel this year, I'm convinced, it will only make Vettel a harder competitor next year around. There's one thing about being the perceived "number 1", the 4-time champ who's under pressure to lead the team and beat everyone - it's another to be perceived as an equal, an underdog. No doubt, the pressure to perform at Ferrari is immense and Vettel has some stuff to clear his mind of, but I do think ultimately, the pairing with an equally strong or stronger team-mate will have a positive effect on his racing and speed.

And from what I've heard in the team-radio to Vettel from Binotto, I think the team might be in its best place since a few years in how the team is being managed.
Pretty much agree with everything. I don't think either Mercedes or Ferrari start off with a number 1 and 2. I think the call in Russia last year was absolutely the right one and Ferrari were banana's to allow whatever they did at Germany and worst of all Italy. I will be of the same opinion if Vettel is in Raikkonen's position later in the year.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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of course the teams have a clear number one and number two, the number one gets paid many times more then the number two, number one is on all the ads from the sponsors and their whole marketing is demanding them to win. If Hamilton finishes second to Bottas a couple of races, he has to explain his driving to the team, the other way round not, Bottas gets a pat on the back "well done chap"

Having a clear number one and two in the team doesn't mean that number two has to jump out of the way of number one, but if number one isn't outperforming number two, there will be a new number one.

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Phil
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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I don't think there has to be a direct correlation between "winning" (or outperforming your team-mate) and your salary. There's more to a driver than what he delivers on Saturday and Sunday. There's PR, marketing, there's feedback and car development. Not disputing that performing on the relevant days isn't the most important aspect, I'm just saying it's not only that. A Hamilton, like it or not, brings a lot to a brand like Mercedes even if he doesn't win the championship. Much more than that, he is a known quantity in what he brings. Just because he got beaten in 2016 didn't make him less of a valuable asset to the team and it changed zero of his value and pay.

As for number one and number two - as has been said numerous times, even if there are, the best way to change that is to simply perform better. Leclerc did exactly that in Bahrain by outperforming Vettel on the track. It's the same solution for Bottas too if he wants to be the main championship contender for Mercedes. If however one driver ends up with significantly more points than the other and has the more consistent performances to his name, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where the team might focus its championship ambitions. This also applies to if Bottas for whatever reason ends up with a sizeable advantage against Hamilton half way through the season. Of course, it also depends how far the closest competitor is and perhaps some of the context, but the point still stands.

Teams can't control who of their drivers are quicker or faster. They may have certain expectations towards their drivers, but at the end of the day, there's limited control. And to manipulate one over the other would be akin to shooting themselves in the foot. So no, there's nothing that stops a driver beating his team-mate if not for simply performing better...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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MercedesAMGSpy
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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djones wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:13 am
Hamilton has no wife, kids etc.

His entire focus and reason for being is racing.

I suspect he will not retire for a long time yet - probably 2025 or something.
Agreed, just watch his post-quali interview in Bahrain on the grid. He was just beaten by two Ferrari's and one did it with a big margin, but Lewis was ready for the challenge, having fun during Q3. He loves racing as much as he was 13 years old.

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Shrieker
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:15 pm
hulk race start + 10 min

https://streamable.com/k1g6i
Wow, he was on fire.
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Tzk
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
He got the headspace issue since 2017 and there's no obvious solution in sight. I'm not sure if he can resolve this faster than LeClerc being on the rise ;)

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 29 - 31

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Tzk wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:15 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:58 am
People may be writing him off on the basis of one race, but I've seen enough from him to believe he has a lot to offer. His main issue is his headspace. Once he gets hold of that, the speed will come.
He got the headspace issue since 2017 and there's no obvious solution in sight. I'm not sure if he can resolve this faster than LeClerc being on the rise ;)
I can't see him getting his headspace in order, certainly not anytime soon. And by the time he does, if he does, it will probably be too late.

If he cracks and folds while being beaten by the best (regarded as the best) then how can he handle being beaten by a kid in the same car.
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