2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

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Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Restomaniac » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:06 am

Dr. Acula wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:03 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:55 am
If that hydraulic fluid got into the back of the Williams, what sort of issues could that cause?
None. Things are sealed good enough so the oil should not reach spots where it could cause any harm. The issue is probably more that the mechanics will need a --- ton of time to clean things up. Imagine the oil flows into a radiator. Have fun cleaning out the fins... :x
Maybe leave it in the intakes though 😜

What oil burning 😂

bosyber
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by bosyber » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:08 am

adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:54 am
Restomaniac wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:52 am
This also brings the whole ‘3 components’ issue into play.

What happens if it’s wrecked the battery? Is it fair to penalise a team for something that isn’t totally outside of a normal racing issue?
I don't suppose there is, but they should have a force majeur (spelling??) clause that would allow them to replace any damaged by external (ie not a racing collision etc) events.
Yeah, that would be a good idea, in principle. But, probably means that any accident needs someone assigned blame so the other might be able to claim 'force majeure' ;) Guess one could limit it by specifying 'stewards may assign force majeure exemption in case of track problems, like loose drain covers, causing damage. But, even there: is a curb stone damaging the car then force majeure? Teams would try to argue it, surely.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 am

adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:55 am
If that hydraulic fluid got into the back of the Williams, what sort of issues could that cause?
Compared to the damage below, the hydraulic oil is probably no more than an annoyance that will take time to clean up.

The Williams will need a new floor, possibly a new tub, possibly a new battery. Russell said the engine switched off after the impact - I wonder if that's a safety system for crash protection or the result of damage done. I wonder if Williams will be sending the circuit a big bill...
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Jonathan King
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Jonathan King » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:10 am

During the manhole cover "repairs" it looked like they could make a few (half) turns before having to use force. Did they forget to fasten them before FP1?
Last edited by Jonathan King on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:11 am

bosyber wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:08 am
But, even there: is a curb stone damaging the car then force majeure? Teams would try to argue it, surely.
Driving on the kerbs is not obligatory - the drivers do it because it's quicker. Their problem then.

Loose manholes are outside of the drivers' / teams' control so damage caused should be open to a "free" repair of controlled items such as the battery.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Restomaniac
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Location: Hull

Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Restomaniac » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:12 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:11 am
bosyber wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:08 am
But, even there: is a curb stone damaging the car then force majeure? Teams would try to argue it, surely.
Driving on the kerbs is not obligatory - the drivers do it because it's quicker. Their problem then.

Loose manholes are outside of the drivers' / teams' control so damage caused should be open to a "free" repair of controlled items such as the battery.
Exactly.

saviour stivala
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:15 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:55 am
If that hydraulic fluid got into the back of the Williams, what sort of issues could that cause?
Compared to the damage below, the hydraulic oil is probably no more than an annoyance that will take time to clean up.

The Williams will need a new floor, possibly a new tub, possibly a new battery. Russell said the engine switched off after the impact - I wonder if that's a safety system for crash protection or the result of damage done. I wonder if Williams will be sending the circuit a big bill...
I have no doubt that Williams will be sending the circuit the biggest bill possible.

netoperek
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by netoperek » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:22 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:09 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:55 am
If that hydraulic fluid got into the back of the Williams, what sort of issues could that cause?
Compared to the damage below, the hydraulic oil is probably no more than an annoyance that will take time to clean up.

The Williams will need a new floor, possibly a new tub, possibly a new battery. Russell said the engine switched off after the impact - I wonder if that's a safety system for crash protection or the result of damage done. I wonder if Williams will be sending the circuit a big bill...
They sure should send a fat bill covering any direct or indirect costs they'll be facing in result of the incident. This isn't a driver or team mistake by any strech of imagination and as negative results of attacking curbs can be expected and avoided, driving on the track is exactly what the drivers are supposed to do without damaging half of the car. It is only fair that Williams can repair the damage without any other negative consequences, like reducing their part limits.
Speaking of fixing, Williams couldn't produce a new floor for Robert since preseason test, imagine them rebuilding the car for Russel with such limited resources. Great news, as if they weren't screwed enough :(

FrukostScones
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by FrukostScones » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:24 am

Finishing races is important, but racing is more important. ...

netoperek
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by netoperek » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:25 am

At least Pirelli prepared for the race :P

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Restomaniac » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:33 am

FrukostScones wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:24 am
Haas settles with Sepang Cicuit.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13899 ... ith-sepang
I think that’s a given and Williams will ultimately lose out. Something that Williams cannot afford. Like I say it’s more a case of what happens if they lose a component that will eventually cost them a grid penalty or a retirement (due to a replacement/failure choice).

Sieper
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Sieper » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:52 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:11 am
bosyber wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:08 am
But, even there: is a curb stone damaging the car then force majeure? Teams would try to argue it, surely.
Driving on the kerbs is not obligatory - the drivers do it because it's quicker. Their problem then.

Loose manholes are outside of the drivers' / teams' control so damage caused should be open to a "free" repair of controlled items such as the battery.
Well, imagine a kerbstones is loosened by one driver (by simply driving over it) and then hits and destroys the next to come by (just like happened here) how would that not be similar. The whole track needs to be suitably fastened, ready to be driven I would say.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:59 am

Sieper wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:52 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:11 am
bosyber wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:08 am
But, even there: is a curb stone damaging the car then force majeure? Teams would try to argue it, surely.
Driving on the kerbs is not obligatory - the drivers do it because it's quicker. Their problem then.

Loose manholes are outside of the drivers' / teams' control so damage caused should be open to a "free" repair of controlled items such as the battery.
Well, imagine a kerbstones is loosened by one driver (by simply driving over it) and then hits and destroys the next to come by (just like happened here) how would that not be similar. The whole track needs to be suitably fastened, ready to be driven I would say.
Simple answer - the kerbs are outside the race track. The track is the tarmac within the white lines and kerbs are outside of that. If your car is damaged whilst you are driving off the track, that's your problem.

Having said that, I agree that all of the bits of the circuit should be correctly installed / maintained.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by Just_a_fan » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:03 pm

Chassis change required. No more running today. Don't know what they're referring to with regard to the regulations precluding running until Saturday.
Williams will need to change the chassis because of damage and so regulation dictates he will not be able to run again until Saturday's final practice.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48065053
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

turbof1
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Re: 2019 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, April 26-28

Post by turbof1 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:08 pm

Restomaniac wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:33 am
FrukostScones wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:24 am
Haas settles with Sepang Cicuit.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13899 ... ith-sepang
I think that’s a given and Williams will ultimately lose out. Something that Williams cannot afford. Like I say it’s more a case of what happens if they lose a component that will eventually cost them a grid penalty or a retirement (due to a replacement/failure choice).
I think I can remember something about that when it happened to HAAS. Although they did not have to change a PU component, they would have been allowed to make a free change if needed. But I'm not sure if I am remembering it correctly.

Would be the logical thing to do anyway. This is completely outside the team's responsibility. The team is already unfairly punished regarding putting extra man hours into rebuilding a car, plus given such cases take months to recuperate the financial damage, will put strains on the cash flow as well.
#AeroFrodo