2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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Zynerji
58
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Zynerji » Sun May 12, 2019 8:37 pm

TAG wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:36 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:27 pm
Sounds like a very convenient way to prevent wheel spin. I'm interested in why you're taking such as dismissive stance about this. TC and all related tech is banned. I don't see it as easily dismissed if there is public statements about a behavior that could easily mimic this banned driver aid.
Traction Control? Whatever it is you're talking about, it is not that. You want to start a thread about Mercedes using an illegal launch control aid, knock yourself out but at least use the right terminology. Using a clutch to control wheel spin in the way Bottas described would be a clutch with serious longevity issues.
Are you calling him a liar? O.o

The simple fact that he finished second after reporting this problem at the start confirms that it could be used and be made to last until the end of the race.

dtro
3
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:39 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dtro » Sun May 12, 2019 8:46 pm

siskue2005 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:21 pm
dtro wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:55 pm
Carl Mccoy wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:41 pm

Mission No Grip
Mission Winless
Mission Incompetent
:lol: :lol: Mission? D'oh

Tom145145
1
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:26 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Tom145145 » Sun May 12, 2019 8:47 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:37 pm
TAG wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:36 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:27 pm
Sounds like a very convenient way to prevent wheel spin. I'm interested in why you're taking such as dismissive stance about this. TC and all related tech is banned. I don't see it as easily dismissed if there is public statements about a behavior that could easily mimic this banned driver aid.
Traction Control? Whatever it is you're talking about, it is not that. You want to start a thread about Mercedes using an illegal launch control aid, knock yourself out but at least use the right terminology. Using a clutch to control wheel spin in the way Bottas described would be a clutch with serious longevity issues.
Are you calling him a liar? O.o

The simple fact that he finished second after reporting this problem at the start confirms that it could be used and be made to last until the end of the race.
I think that it needs removing :P . It seemed more like traction elimination than control.
You can’t come up with the conspiracy theory and then say that it has to work because he finished the race...

Zynerji
58
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Zynerji » Sun May 12, 2019 8:48 pm

Tom145145 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:47 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:37 pm
TAG wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:36 pm


Traction Control? Whatever it is you're talking about, it is not that. You want to start a thread about Mercedes using an illegal launch control aid, knock yourself out but at least use the right terminology. Using a clutch to control wheel spin in the way Bottas described would be a clutch with serious longevity issues.
Are you calling him a liar? O.o

The simple fact that he finished second after reporting this problem at the start confirms that it could be used and be made to last until the end of the race.
I think that it needs removing :P . It seemed more like traction elimination than control.
You can’t come up with the conspiracy theory and then say that it has to work because he finished the race...
I agree. I also agree that my speculation cannot be dismissed because somebody said that it couldn't last the race.

All I'm saying is that it would not be super difficult to have an anti-stall map that would measure front wheel speed and rear wheel speed, and cycle in and out of anti-stall until they matched. it just seems interesting to me, and if one team is doing it I'm sure multiple teams are doing it, so don't take this as partisan, simply trying to extract more technical understanding from a quote that I had never heard before.
Last edited by Zynerji on Sun May 12, 2019 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sieper
69
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Sieper » Sun May 12, 2019 8:51 pm

I think Bottas made that statement in a different geste. The team sets the grip point right? And then the driver within those parameters uses the clutch to make the get away. I think Bottas was saying that normally his engineers always get the bite point, clutch fine tuning correct, and this race not. He might be insinuating that perhaps that was more then bad luck. At least, that is how I read that Comment and the body language he had with that.

Tom145145
1
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:26 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Tom145145 » Sun May 12, 2019 8:53 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:48 pm
Tom145145 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:47 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:37 pm


Are you calling him a liar? O.o

The simple fact that he finished second after reporting this problem at the start confirms that it could be used and be made to last until the end of the race.
I think that it needs removing :P . It seemed more like traction elimination than control.
You can’t come up with the conspiracy theory and then say that it has to work because he finished the race...
I agree. I also agree that my speculation cannot be dismissed because somebody said that it couldn't last the race.
But engaging and disengaging the clutch on an F1 car would kill it, it’s just not viable as a means of traction control. More telling is that if this was by design why would Bottas tell the media?

Zynerji
58
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Zynerji » Sun May 12, 2019 8:56 pm

Tom145145 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:53 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:48 pm
Tom145145 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:47 pm


I think that it needs removing :P . It seemed more like traction elimination than control.
You can’t come up with the conspiracy theory and then say that it has to work because he finished the race...
I agree. I also agree that my speculation cannot be dismissed because somebody said that it couldn't last the race.
But engaging and disengaging the clutch on an F1 car would kill it, it’s just not viable as a means of traction control. More telling is that if this was by design why would Bottas tell the media?
He said it was quickly catching and releasing. Are you saying that that did not happen? Because according to him it did, and it lasted the race. All I'm saying is you cannot dismiss the action that is admitted to just because you speculate the part in question is not durable enough to withstand it.

dans79
206
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dans79 » Sun May 12, 2019 9:02 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:27 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:22 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 7:03 pm
Bottas on the start:



Isn't that, by definition, traction control?
Only if you're looking for some illegalities where none exist in order to aid your preferred driver / team... :shock: :lol: :lol:
Sounds like a very convenient way to prevent wheel spin. I'm interested in why you're taking such as dismissive stance about this. TC and all related tech is banned. I don't see it as easily dismissed if there is public statements about a behavior that could easily mimic this banned driver aid.
You know how traction control works right? if Bottas had traction control is probably the worst traction control on the planet.
Last edited by dans79 on Sun May 12, 2019 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tom145145
1
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:26 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Tom145145 » Sun May 12, 2019 9:02 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Tom145145 wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:53 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:48 pm


I agree. I also agree that my speculation cannot be dismissed because somebody said that it couldn't last the race.
But engaging and disengaging the clutch on an F1 car would kill it, it’s just not viable as a means of traction control. More telling is that if this was by design why would Bottas tell the media?
He said it was quickly catching and releasing. Are you saying that that did not happen? Because according to him it did, and it lasted the race. All I'm saying is you cannot dismiss the action that is admitted to just because you speculate the part in question is not durable enough to withstand it.
All the interviews I have seen he states it’s an issue at the start only. I agree with previous posters, likely a clutch setup issue not giving full engagement in the first phase.

Jolle
158
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Jolle » Sun May 12, 2019 9:08 pm

Xwang wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:56 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:51 pm
Sulman wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:43 pm


This is absolutely brilliant. I thouht it felt like classic next year! Ferrari but '91 is a more accurate comparison. Seasoned champion, young shiny hotshoe, and total disarray.

The unexpected dominance of the top team is similar, too.
Will that mean Leclerc is the new Alesi? Vettel being fired at the end of the season calling the Ferrari a tractor and being replaced by the once returning Kimi for 2020.... And Leclerc finally winning a race in 2025.
And after 1991 there was the 1992 car (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F92A). ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
"for 2020 we like to re-introduce our double floor concept which we races before in 1992 and 1996"

Carl Mccoy
0
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:31 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Carl Mccoy » Sun May 12, 2019 9:13 pm

2014 Ferrari was even worse than F92a :-)

maxxer
1
Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 11:01 am

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by maxxer » Sun May 12, 2019 9:16 pm

TAG wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:36 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:27 pm
Sounds like a very convenient way to prevent wheel spin. I'm interested in why you're taking such as dismissive stance about this. TC and all related tech is banned. I don't see it as easily dismissed if there is public statements about a behavior that could easily mimic this banned driver aid.
Traction Control? Whatever it is you're talking about, it is not that. You want to start a thread about Mercedes using an illegal launch control aid, knock yourself out but at least use the right terminology. Using a clutch to control wheel spin in the way Bottas described would be a clutch with serious longevity issues.
Agree just the clutch disc being uneven probably

Shakeman
51
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Shakeman » Sun May 12, 2019 9:17 pm

If modulating the clutch bite as a form of traction control was being used then it would be absolutely implausible Bottas wouldn’t know about it and have felt it before. He certainly wouldn’t be announcing it to the world’s press. Occam’s razor.

It sounds to me more like the bite point was set right on the limit and the clutch broke friction and Bottas was pissed off that it had been, in his view, incorrectly set for the start.

PlatinumZealot
361
User avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun May 12, 2019 9:19 pm

Mission Win? No!
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Just_a_fan
492
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Just_a_fan » Sun May 12, 2019 9:20 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 8:27 pm
Sounds like a very convenient way to prevent wheel spin. I'm interested in why you're taking such as dismissive stance about this. TC and all related tech is banned. I don't see it as easily dismissed if there is public statements about a behavior that could easily mimic this banned driver aid.
1. If it was TC, the driver would be aware of it being on the car
2. If the car has TC, the driver certainly wouldn't be drawing attention to it in such a fashion - he'd more likely say "I got a bit of wheelspin and it ruined by start", not "I got symptoms that might be construed as having TC fitted to my car".
3. TC is intended to improve traction and maximise drive away from standstill or corners. TC would make the take off from the line better, not worse.

You are implying the Mercedes has TC as it's a convenient way to exlain why they are better than your preferred team.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"