2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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zibby43
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by zibby43 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:44 am

dtro wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:21 pm
Is the PU we’ll see from the reds the one they ran in testing minus the reliability issues they had in said test? I was under the impression that the PU so far has been some sort of halfway house solution.
The "Spec 1" PU Ferrari has used thus far was only compromised during the race (not in qualifying) in Melbourne. Their cooling was too aggressive, which forced them to run at reduced power.

"Additionally, it's now clear Ferrari was indeed running on reduced power during the race in Melbourne – but not in qualifying, when the normal modes were used. Sources inside the team insist it was forced to run the engine over-cool in Australia."

Source: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... in-f1-leap

Reliable sources have also indicated that Mercedes has been dealing with cooling issues since testing, and most of the squad at Brackley and Brixworth were expecting a very tough set of 4 races to begin the season because the cooling issues wouldn't be resolved until Barcelona.

dans79
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dans79 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:51 am

zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:44 am
Reliable sources have also indicated that Mercedes has been dealing with cooling issues since testing, and most of the squad at Brackley and Brixworth were expecting a very tough set of 4 races to begin the season because the cooling issues wouldn't be resolved until Barcelona.
Do you have a source for this?

Is this source implying that Mercedes can potentially run higher power modes during quali and the race once they have their cooling issue sorted out, or just the race?

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by zibby43 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:55 am

dans79 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:51 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:44 am
Reliable sources have also indicated that Mercedes has been dealing with cooling issues since testing, and most of the squad at Brackley and Brixworth were expecting a very tough set of 4 races to begin the season because the cooling issues wouldn't be resolved until Barcelona.
Do you have a source for this?

Is this source implying that Mercedes can potentially run higher power modes during quali and the race once they have their cooling issue sorted out, or just the race?
Yep. Source: Michael Schmidt of AMuS (among others). He's alluded to it in both videos and in articles.

No mention of how it may or may not have impacted race modes, but he did mention that due to the issues, Mercedes can only run the PU in more aggressive settings for a few laps per weekend. Through the first 4 races, it has saved these laps for qualifying and, in particular, Q3.

I'm curious to see if 1) the fix does come in Barcelona; 2) whether the changes are "under the skin" (e.g., cooling architecture/layout); 3) whether the fixes result in being able to run more powerful settings and/or more powerful settings for longer; and 4) whether the fixes allow Mercedes to run even tighter bodywork.

Despite the alleged issues, Mercedes has still been running some of the tightest rear engine cover bodywork in the paddock. If the issues are related to actual physical hardware performance, rather than heat dissipation, it's not a surprise Merc have still been able to push the envelope there.

It also depends on whether the "problems" are over-cooling problems, similar to what Ferrari dealt with in Melbourne.

zioture
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by zioture » Wed May 08, 2019 12:19 pm


dans79
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dans79 » Wed May 08, 2019 1:50 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:55 am
Despite the alleged issues, Mercedes has still been running some of the tightest rear engine cover bodywork in the paddock. If the issues are related to actual physical hardware performance, rather than heat dissipation, it's not a surprise Merc have still been able to push the envelope there.

It also depends on whether the "problems" are over-cooling problems, similar to what Ferrari dealt with in Melbourne.
If true it's definitely interesting.

Mercedes has shrunk the rear exhaust openings already this year, so that hints at over cooling. However, they could easily have an internal under cooling issue, by that mean what's going into the side pods isn't flowing to all the components like they want it to.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed May 08, 2019 4:07 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:55 am


No mention of how it may or may not have impacted race modes, but he did mention that due to the issues, Mercedes can only run the PU in more aggressive settings for a few laps per weekend. Through the first 4 races, it has saved these laps for qualifying and, in particular, Q3.

I'm curious to see if 1) the fix does come in Barcelona; 2) whether the changes are "under the skin" (e.g., cooling architecture/layout); 3) whether the fixes result in being able to run more powerful settings and/or more powerful settings for longer; and 4) whether the fixes allow Mercedes to run even tighter bodywork.
I wonder if it's to do with the ES rather than the ICE. ICE cooling would be relatively easy to fix. ES cooling could just be a physical limit of their battery system.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

dtro
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dtro » Wed May 08, 2019 4:08 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:44 am
dtro wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 10:21 pm
Is the PU we’ll see from the reds the one they ran in testing minus the reliability issues they had in said test? I was under the impression that the PU so far has been some sort of halfway house solution.
The "Spec 1" PU Ferrari has used thus far was only compromised during the race (not in qualifying) in Melbourne. Their cooling was too aggressive, which forced them to run at reduced power.

"Additionally, it's now clear Ferrari was indeed running on reduced power during the race in Melbourne – but not in qualifying, when the normal modes were used. Sources inside the team insist it was forced to run the engine over-cool in Australia."

Source: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... in-f1-leap

Reliable sources have also indicated that Mercedes has been dealing with cooling issues since testing, and most of the squad at Brackley and Brixworth were expecting a very tough set of 4 races to begin the season because the cooling issues wouldn't be resolved until Barcelona.
So in effect they have been running a halfway house solution following their ERS failures during testing... Well, here's to them being able to tax the PU's limits reliably without ending up on the side of the track come race day.

Slightly concerning that Mercedes has been so strong even with cooling issues, then again they've masterfully managed to position themselves as not favorites despite the 1-2s so far.

Anyway... how bout that mid-field? Yankees?

LM10
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by LM10 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:25 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:55 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:51 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:44 am
Reliable sources have also indicated that Mercedes has been dealing with cooling issues since testing, and most of the squad at Brackley and Brixworth were expecting a very tough set of 4 races to begin the season because the cooling issues wouldn't be resolved until Barcelona.
Do you have a source for this?

Is this source implying that Mercedes can potentially run higher power modes during quali and the race once they have their cooling issue sorted out, or just the race?
It also depends on whether the "problems" are over-cooling problems, similar to what Ferrari dealt with in Melbourne.
Michael Schmidt told "first 3 races weren't so hot" when talking about cooling issues of Mercedes. This insists it's overheating. Also, looking at how problematic the overcooling issue Ferrari had in Melbourne was (they were behind by miles in regards of power and also consumption), it just underlines it's probability of being overheating for Mercedes since they're no where being behind in races.

The question is how much overheating Mercedes has because the fact they tightened the engine cover outlet even more in China, tells me it might not be a major thing.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by zibby43 » Wed May 08, 2019 6:19 pm

dans79 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:50 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:55 am
Despite the alleged issues, Mercedes has still been running some of the tightest rear engine cover bodywork in the paddock. If the issues are related to actual physical hardware performance, rather than heat dissipation, it's not a surprise Merc have still been able to push the envelope there.

It also depends on whether the "problems" are over-cooling problems, similar to what Ferrari dealt with in Melbourne.
If true it's definitely interesting.

Mercedes has shrunk the rear exhaust openings already this year, so that hints at over cooling. However, they could easily have an internal under cooling issue, by that mean what's going into the side pods isn't flowing to all the components like they want it to.
Agreed.

zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by zibby43 » Wed May 08, 2019 6:21 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:07 pm
I wonder if it's to do with the ES rather than the ICE. ICE cooling would be relatively easy to fix. ES cooling could just be a physical limit of their battery system.
Interesting point you bring up there. How could they address the latter?

NL_Fer
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by NL_Fer » Wed May 08, 2019 6:53 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:07 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:55 am


No mention of how it may or may not have impacted race modes, but he did mention that due to the issues, Mercedes can only run the PU in more aggressive settings for a few laps per weekend. Through the first 4 races, it has saved these laps for qualifying and, in particular, Q3.

I'm curious to see if 1) the fix does come in Barcelona; 2) whether the changes are "under the skin" (e.g., cooling architecture/layout); 3) whether the fixes result in being able to run more powerful settings and/or more powerful settings for longer; and 4) whether the fixes allow Mercedes to run even tighter bodywork.
I wonder if it's to do with the ES rather than the ICE. ICE cooling would be relatively easy to fix. ES cooling could just be a physical limit of their battery system.
I think intercooler cooling. They cannot keep it cool enough to prevent knock.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by PlatinumZealot » Wed May 08, 2019 10:34 pm

Hamilton Pole and Win. Easy.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed May 08, 2019 11:05 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:21 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 4:07 pm
I wonder if it's to do with the ES rather than the ICE. ICE cooling would be relatively easy to fix. ES cooling could just be a physical limit of their battery system.
Interesting point you bring up there. How could they address the latter?
Change of battery / controller / cooling system. Depends what the problem is.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Restomaniac » Wed May 08, 2019 11:26 pm

Back to this weekend.

Ferrari just HAVE to get on top or it’s going to be a long boring season. Even more so when the inevitable Hamilton surge and the Bottas drop off happens.

Mach
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Mach » Thu May 09, 2019 1:48 am

Ferrari will need a few Mercedes DNFs races before making serious ground. Problem is, Mercedes will bring their power plant upgrade after identifying the Ferrari performance bench mark.