2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Jolle
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:55 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:50 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:33 pm
Intersting. As was the photo from the point of contact. Looks like Max had both fronts locked up.
Yes, the gap that he thought was there, was disappearing because Hamilton cleverly squeezed to the left.
Hamilton was turning in to the corner before Max was near him. Max's attempt was a dive bomb. Indeed, if he hadn't hit Hamilton he wouldn't have made the corner anyway. Hamilton would have had he not been hit.
could be, watching it a few times it looked to me that Hamilton closed the door (the clever small squeeze) but by doing that, he was on a line to make it almost impossible to make that corner. So the moment he saw Verstappen's dive, decided to defend and then go straight on trough the chicane. on the video you can see how sharp and how late you have to turn in by the HAAS that is driving in front of them. Verstappen, with his better tires probably tried the same as he did to Sainz last year. Sending Hamilton off track on the inside of the chicane on with himself bumping over the curbs. But Hamilton just needed a light tap to be able to take a free run straight on. Hamilton took the same kind of line in 2016 defending to Ricciardo who didn't bite.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Locking up both fronts showed that Max was never going to do anything but hit Hamilton - he was relying on Hamilton to get out of the way as he had no control over the outcome otherwise. He basically needed Hamilton to cave in and let him through. Max learned that Hamilton isn't a push over like some are.
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Jolle
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:30 pm
Locking up both fronts showed that Max was never going to do anything but hit Hamilton - he was relying on Hamilton to get out of the way as he had no control over the outcome otherwise. He basically needed Hamilton to cave in and let him through. Max learned that Hamilton isn't a push over like some are.
Yes. That’s basically how to overtake there. Put it next to the guy in the braking zone so you will make the chicane but he can’t. The launch was too late but the touch made it ok for Hamilton to miss the chicane.

Too late from Verstappen’s side and clever from Hamilton.

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Jolle wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:48 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:30 pm
Locking up both fronts showed that Max was never going to do anything but hit Hamilton - he was relying on Hamilton to get out of the way as he had no control over the outcome otherwise. He basically needed Hamilton to cave in and let him through. Max learned that Hamilton isn't a push over like some are.
Yes. That’s basically how to overtake there. Put it next to the guy in the braking zone so you will make the chicane but he can’t. The launch was too late but the touch made it ok for Hamilton to miss the chicane.

Too late from Verstappen’s side and clever from Hamilton.
Key word being "next" not just putting your front wing by the guy's rear tire. A substantial portion of your car so you can make the turn and the other guy can't. Preferably without locking up as it makes it difficult to make the chicane without steering input.
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GPR-A
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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TAG wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:52 am
Jolle wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:48 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:30 pm
Locking up both fronts showed that Max was never going to do anything but hit Hamilton - he was relying on Hamilton to get out of the way as he had no control over the outcome otherwise. He basically needed Hamilton to cave in and let him through. Max learned that Hamilton isn't a push over like some are.
Yes. That’s basically how to overtake there. Put it next to the guy in the braking zone so you will make the chicane but he can’t. The launch was too late but the touch made it ok for Hamilton to miss the chicane.

Too late from Verstappen’s side and clever from Hamilton.
Key word being "next" not just putting your front wing by the guy's rear tire. A substantial portion of your car so you can make the turn and the other guy can't. Preferably without locking up as it makes it difficult to make the chicane without steering input.
In all honesty, an overtake is in that turn is impossible unless the overtaking driver is ahead at the point of turning into that corner, even if it is a dive bomb move. It would then give the high ground for overtaking driver to go for the corner and the obligation on the driver being overtaken to wait and make the chicane. In case of Max, even with his dive bomb move, he was only hitting the rear wheel of Hamilton and if not for Hamilton's anticipation of such a move from Max, it would have been a clear destruction for both and Vettel would be smiling. It's not like a proper racing circuit corner where two cars can take the corner together. So, it was a move written "wreckage" all over it. Besides, there are upteen incidents of the leading driver cutting the chicane as the charging driver from behind has not left room for making corner and there hasn't been a penalty.

So, even without Max's touching if Hamilton would have cut the corner, I doubt if there would have been a penalty as Hamilton could have defended that, he did that as the Max left no room for him. But that hit, didn't make a case itself, which on any other day could have punctured the rear for Hamilton. May be the removal appendages on the front wing end plates have helped after all.

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iotar__
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:41 pm
I don’t agree... In my opinion it is simply a race that brings something different... I for one watched with a lot of interest the development of the gap between Norris and Sainz and what ultimately became the right strategy call to have Sainz come out in front of him (and passing RIC and MAG in the process)... Found it very interesting to see the different strategies during the Safety Car in regards to who decided to stay, who decided to pit... Watching HAM and VER fight it out for almost the whole race was interesting too and even brought an adrenaline spike when the 2 touched after the Tunnel (I was waiting to hear that HAM had a puncture)... Watching the drivers wrestle their cars for 70+ laps and not touch a barrier is very impressive also... Monaco was a good race.
There are 21 races in a season, I’m glad that there is variety in all of them.
Precisely but also from driver's perspective. In a perfect world fight for WDC would be based on skills. Monaco but also races like Hungary would present a different test. Monaco fun is 99% qualifying and FP. it doesn't matter now since corporations (driver choices + budgets + marketing over sport), mob (we want fastestes cars evah and tyres that last almost forever) and useless owner (Bernard E.) created the current state.

Speaking of rubbish F1, Verstappen non penalty, not only was it an unsafe release but a driver instead of trying to avoid the other car actively moved into its path. That's two penalties. FIA: no it's fine and safe 5 s :D . Where is Ross Brawn? Fishing, removing DRS?

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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You have to have a clear speed advantage to make an overtake stick around here.

Kimi shows how it can be done. Perez putting fate in the hands of the other driver by divebombing.


zac510
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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zeph wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 7:19 pm
I think Monaco is a great event, because no other track on Earth exposes the skill of the drivers more. So there’s little to no overtaking, sure, but how can you be anything other than awestruck when you see these guys cajoling these cars around at these speeds? Especially with the on-board cameras, it’s breathtaking. They literally get within millimeters of the wall, at 200km/h.
It’s one of the toughest races of the year for the drivers, that’s why a victory here is among the most coveted.

Monaco IS Formula One. I hope it will stay on the calendar forever.
Agree! The size of the current cars and their aerodynamics aren't ideal for Monaco but I still love the track. The car dimensions and aerodynamics always changes in waves (or eras, if you like), but Monaco is just one of a kind.

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Max could easily have been done for 'Forcing another driver off the track' with that move. Just sayin. Since he literally did.

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Phil
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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I'm really glad to hear I wasn't the only one who enjoyed and loved the Monaco GP. Every year, it's a highlight for me and even if I can respect that some might find the procession the races usually result in boring, I really appreciate the fact that it offers a 'different experience', a race pretty unique with very different challenges.

If every track offered easy passing opportunities, we'd always end up with pretty much the same result. At Monaco we did too, but some of its uniqueness ensured a slightly different result; for one, we had Ferrari mess up Q1 with Leclerc starting from 15th, we had RedBull beat Mercedes in the pits that led to the pit incident and Bottas losing a position. There was also a lot going on further down the grid strategically; Pit during the safety car or not. Some that did, fell into traffic while others profited.

Ferrari could have played a significant role too, had they not messed up in Q1. If both Ferraris had been in the top 5, they could have had a few interesting strategic options to play; For one - stay out and not pit and then use one car to artificially slow down the pack while the one in front could have gotten a free pit stop out of it. Similarly, Mercedes could have left Bottas out and use Hamilton to control the traffic to protect their 1-2. Stuff like this is only possible at Monaco, really. In the end, I appreciate the event for what it is; a race where 90% of the work is done on Saturday and the race itself sometimes offers unique circumstances that can mess with the order.

From a drivers point of view, I also think it takes immense concentration to bring home a result without making a mistake. There are some replays of various drivers (Grosjean and Hamilton included) touching the barriers. A bit more here or there could have instantly resulted in a DNF.
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TAG
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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We can defend teams getting a heritage payout bonus but we attack the most prestigious heritage race on the calendar. Oh the fickle fandom of F1.
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ispano6
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:57 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 5:20 pm
maybe Red Bull ought to be more subtle in letting Max know to use mode 7. Bono was able to warn Lewis and MB responded with higher modes. They effectively took away the element of surprise.
I feel Red Bull rely heavily on luck and racing, where as MB are outsmarting other teams by simply just having all the bases filled with all-stars.

At least Max put an end to the consecutive MB 1-2 dominance and made the race exciting for Red Bull and Honda fans.
Apparently Max was in the wrong torque map after his pit stop. They change the map to help with the pull away from the box. They're not allowed to change the map on track and he forgot to do it in the pit lane thanks to his Bottas incident.

Apparently it made the engine suffer turbo lag which made driving it trickier and he had to drive around it.

Read on Autosport.
Already know this, and again, it was a team/driver error. Further reinforces my opinion on the matter. Doesn't change the fact the radio message was listened to and responded to by MB. Mode 7 clearly got Max closer, and Hamilton was ready for it.

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djos
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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This was definitely the best Monaco in years - I think the changes to the cars have really improved the racing this year and by extension the show. The only downer for me was that Renault got their race strategy calls so wrong and really screwed up Dan and Nico's races.

It was great fun watching Max chase down Lewis and attempt to pass him - I thought the move at the swimming pool was highly optimistic but both drivers raced fair. I thought Lewis and Max giving each other the thumbs up on the cool down lap was awesome and great sportsmanship. As a fan of the sport, it is great to see that Max has really matured - he's still super fast but he is really racing in an intelligent way this year.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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maxxer wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 11:19 am
Why they dont enable drs in the tunnel also?
Sparks flying would be cool and at the end its safe enough to escape
Safety reasons. I would like to see a DRS there but I guess it won´t happen.

I love Monaco´s track but its frustrating to see that race can be so dull because drivers know they can´t overtake. They should use softer tyres to make overtaking easier.

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Sierra117
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Re: 2019 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 23-26

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Isn't there a fork in the road just after the swimming pool chicane? I haven't paid much attention but if it's a parallel road then why not join those two and remove the chicane to make a longer straight, wide enough for two cars to attempt an overtake. Slipstream in the tunnel and then attempt overtake on the following road.
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