2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by TAG » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:09 pm

dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:59 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:47 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:41 pm
I have let this simmer a while before adding my 2d worth, but I feel even though the letter of the law says 'penalty' it should not have bee applied in the interest of the sport.
If you don't penalize something that brakes a rule just because it's unpopular than that's not sport anymore.
Yep, it's just an automotive equivalent of WWE without real rules!
Throwing your helmet at a competitor as they drive by on the track won't be far behind!
Countdown to 91: 11 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Bill_Kar » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:09 pm

digitalrurouni wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:04 pm
TAG wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 pm
zeph wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:20 pm
I read Vettel had to save fuel, so he couldn't really turn it up and drive away. I think it was Mark Hughes GP review. Ferrari supposedly underfueled him because they thought there would be a safety car.
It's difficult to believe Ferrari would take a strategic gamble like that. They really must be under a lot of pressure.
Or their PU is not as efficient as the Mercedes PU.
I remember some rumours at the start of the season that their PU is quite thirsty. Maybe that was true and it still is the case.

maxxer
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by maxxer » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:13 pm

So on this race again the whole grid walk thing is starting to give me Epilepsy , cant we just get a normal preview to the race instead of trying to interview people who dont want to be interviewed ? Its not like you run into a football teams dressing room and keep begging for interviews ?
"You start from the back how do you see your chances ?" and then there is where if the driver is lower rank they get the b chick to do those interviews . Seems all really respectless for me.

izzy
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by izzy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:15 pm

mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 pm

You mean 21 year old mistakes like driving more reliably than Vettel despite the team constantly handicapping him?
You're spewing some ridiculous ageist crap.

If they sensed an alpha they'd be supporting Leclerc absolutely.
you're not very polite are you? And it's not ageist to point out they make more mistakes at 21 than when they're older. I thought everyone understood that. What's the youngest ever wdc? 23, not 21, and what's the average wdc? about 30, not 21. and Max is just the same, totally alpha, but 21

Shrieker
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Shrieker » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:30 pm

Restomaniac wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:57 pm
LeClerc couldn’t pit earlier as there wasn’t the gap. That’s was why Hamilton couldn’t come in the very next lap after Vettel either.
True. I missed that.
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Shrieker
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Shrieker » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:35 pm

mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 pm

How?
A time penalty for rejoining in an unsafe manner would be an incentive enough not to do it, but if let's say you're only obligated to relinquish your position when you do it, you might rejoin unsafely and retain your position anyway since the worst that can happen is being forced to relinquish your position. Ergo the position you kept illegally could be used to hamper the driver behind. Actually I think this was discussed here; Vettel could've held up Ham much more thru the twisty sections in sector 1 to help Lec catch him.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
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roon
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by roon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:25 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:39 pm
roon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:24 pm
To comment on the specific rule Vettel fell afoul of: I think its the non-intentional aspect that irks people. Adding a penalty on top of an error made it seem harsh or unfair.
What if Vettel's mistake had mirrored Hamilton's from earlier in the weekend? Penalty on top of the error then would likely have been DNF. Harsh? Unfair?

There have been many on here, over the years, stating that drivers get away with mistakes too easily - many feel that coming off the track should result in a punishment e.g. a gravel trap. Had Vettel had to run through a gravel trap he'd have been "naturally penalised" and lost first place to Hamilton anyway.

As to what irks people, the irked people are either fans of the driver / team or people who felt that the race was ruined by the penalty. The reality is that if the penalty had been "natural" then the outcome would have been the same or worse. The "artificial" nature of the penalty didn't change the natural outcome of the race.
What was the Hamilton error you're referencing? Good point about gravel traps.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Jolle » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:42 pm

When Verstappen races hard just within the rules: ban him, more rules! What a joker... Vettel races nasty and breaking the rules: the rules are no good. We want harder racing.

Damnit, make up your minds!!

langedweil
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by langedweil » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:48 am

roon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:25 am
langedweil wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:14 am
Right ... anything else about this GP !?
Kimi does not know what marmots are called.
:lol: :lol:

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by drunkf1fan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 am

timbo wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:08 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:47 pm
If you don't penalize something that brakes a rule just because it's unpopular than that's not sport anymore.
Uhm
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -kanada%2F
A clickbait article that fails to mention things get changed routinely and that the FIA need to deem that it's similar in function/weight/etc and they couldn't see any differences between what they used and what they replaced it with. Fundamentally it's hydraulics, it's a tube with a liquid in it. If they changed the brakes connected to them would be one thing, if they change the tubes connecting the brakes to the pedal with a different tube because they ran out of their newer version it would never get a penalty.

>Apparently it was not exactly an identical specification in detail.

They add that in like that makes it difficult and dodgy, it's not, nowhere in the rules does it say identical at all. It's an article that seems built on the anti Mercedes feeling and trying to further cloud whether it was fair a Mercedes won again.

strad
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by strad » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 am

Gee I didn't see him "stamping" on the gas. Perhaps you have access to his telemetry?
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Phil » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:17 am

drunkf1fan wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:16 am
timbo wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:08 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:47 pm
If you don't penalize something that brakes a rule just because it's unpopular than that's not sport anymore.
Uhm
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -kanada%2F
A clickbait article that fails to mention things get changed routinely and that the FIA need to deem that it's similar in function/weight/etc and they couldn't see any differences between what they used and what they replaced it with. Fundamentally it's hydraulics, it's a tube with a liquid in it. If they changed the brakes connected to them would be one thing, if they change the tubes connecting the brakes to the pedal with a different tube because they ran out of their newer version it would never get a penalty.

>Apparently it was not exactly an identical specification in detail.

They add that in like that makes it difficult and dodgy, it's not, nowhere in the rules does it say identical at all. It's an article that seems built on the anti Mercedes feeling and trying to further cloud whether it was fair a Mercedes won again.
To be fair, they [Michael Schmidt] corrected the article that the parts didnt need to be identical, only in function, which they were.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:41 am

roon wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:25 pm

What was the Hamilton error you're referencing? Good point about gravel traps.
The car got out of shape and he hit the wall there in FP2 and gave himself a puncture. Lucky not to damage the car further.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

saviour stivala
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by saviour stivala » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:49 am

Shrieker wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:35 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 pm

How?
A time penalty for rejoining in an unsafe manner would be an incentive enough not to do it, but if let's say you're only obligated to relinquish your position when you do it, you might rejoin unsafely and retain your position anyway since the worst that can happen is being forced to relinquish your position. Ergo the position you kept illegally could be used to hamper the driver behind. Actually I think this was discussed here; Vettel could've held up Ham much more thru the twisty sections in sector 1 to help Lec catch him.
“relinquish your position back?” it’s not like anybody was overtaken by somebody having cut a corner or by going off track. And to make that gentleman (whatshisname?) laugh some more, What was the difference in Canada from that of Monaco 2016?.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Hammerfist » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:16 am

zeph wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:20 pm
I read Vettel had to save fuel, so he couldn't really turn it up and drive away. I think it was Mark Hughes GP review. Ferrari supposedly underfueled him because they thought there would be a safety car.
The Ferrari is more thirsty than the Merc. I recall they had a similar problem in Baku. In Canada Vettel appeared to be slightly faster than Lewis in the first stint, but in the second it is obvious he had to do more fuel saving and it hurt his pace a lot.