2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:05 am
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:24 am
ferenc_k wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:14 am


I did not see any ex-racer who supported the stewards decision. It tells a lot about the decision itself.
Me neither. You know why? Because they know exactly what they are talking about.
They were watching the same feed we were. The stewards had access to more information. Thus, the stewards are the ones that know what they're talking about.

It seems that people are happy to throw stewards under the bus these days. It's kind of reminiscent of politicians calling judges "enemy of the people" etc.
If the stewards decided the way which is written in this Autosport article someone posted above, then it's a joke. If they think that Vettel deliberately steered to the right, just screw this "acces to more information"! What we've seen there is called counter steering and you know that too. I don't need a bunch of people regularly deciding in a highly questionable manner to tell me wether it was counter steering or deliberate by looking at their fancy information. All the ex-drivers used a simple video footage and it was more than enough to interpret the situation.

Btw, seems like the stewards didn't have access to more information back in 2016?


LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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zeph wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:59 am
Intrigued, I just watched the replay a few times. It is clear Vettel steers to the right again once he has rejoined the track. His car wasn't even that out of control on the grass. If he had simply gone straight once he was back on the track he would have left sufficient room for Hamilton to pass. But I understand it's racing instinct, keep the other guy behind, so I don't blame him.

In the 1980's this would certainly not have been penalized. From a sporting perspective, it sucks. And during the race I certainly didn't see anything wrong with it. But scrutinizing it on replay, I get it.
Are you kidding me? The only steering to the right Vettel is doing is the counter steering. Have you ever driven a car?

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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This weekend couldn't have gone any better for Hamilton.

Bottas falls back as expected when the car isn't perfect and if the pressure rises. This is the kind of focus that destroyed Rosberg.
Vettel is in the bag. For the third time this year and the second time around him he made a big mistake with this time acting like a spoiled entitled child. He broke him once again.
Honda isn't fast enough yet to have Verstappen around him.

WC6 is coming soon.

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SiLo
90
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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People bringing up Monaco 2016 must be blind. He left a cars width and once Ric got out of it pulled onto the racing line. Vettel just drove a line that was ever decreasing into the wall the whole time.
Felipe Baby!

roon
roon
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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zeph wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:59 am
If he had simply gone straight once he was back on the track he would have left sufficient room for Hamilton to pass.
He did go straight, that's the problem. Some suggest the Ferrari should have immediately hooked up its front tires right after the grass and turned the car more to the left in order to stay on the left hand side of the track so as not to intersect the racing line. But physics doesn't agree, and physics are being read as a defending move here.

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GPR-A
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:20 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:05 am
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:24 am


Me neither. You know why? Because they know exactly what they are talking about.
They were watching the same feed we were. The stewards had access to more information. Thus, the stewards are the ones that know what they're talking about.

It seems that people are happy to throw stewards under the bus these days. It's kind of reminiscent of politicians calling judges "enemy of the people" etc.
If the stewards decided the way which is written in this Autosport article someone posted above, then it's a joke. If they think that Vettel deliberately steered to the right, just screw this "acces to more information"! What we've seen there is called counter steering and you know that too. I don't need a bunch of people regularly deciding in a highly questionable manner to tell me wether it was counter steering or deliberate by looking at their fancy information. All the ex-drivers used a simple video footage and it was more than enough to interpret the situation.

Btw, seems like the stewards didn't have access to more information back in 2016?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzDkb3UW0w
You can take things out of context and justify everything. Without knowing the circumstances, this incident is being used to question what happened yesterday. The Monaco incident was a wet race and in that particular place, there was a puddle of water which drivers were avoiding. Lewis did the same, but Ric wanted go there as it was space available and obviously, his car misbehaved. While Lewis left perfect enough gap and then closed it when it was clean, Ric could have easily beached it on that puddle if he would have gone further. Ric wasnt anywhere close to make a pass there as he wasn't alongside as Lewis was to Vettel yesterday.

Go back and watch the Monaco race again.

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izzy
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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[quote=zeph post_id=839936 time=1

Agreed.
[/quote]
Me too. Autosport explains:"
The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track - which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right.

Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.

The movement to straighten the wheel, which put the Ferrari into the path of Hamilton's Mercedes, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel"

So he didn't oversteer helplessly to the wall, he checked his mirrors and steered there

Bill_Kar
Bill_Kar
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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SiLo wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:27 am
People bringing up Monaco 2016 must be blind. He left a cars width and once Ric got out of it pulled onto the racing line. Vettel just drove a line that was ever decreasing into the wall the whole time.
That bothers me since last night because everyone is referring to it.

Of course he left a cars width, otherwise RIC would actually be on the wall, there is no run-off area in Monaco.

zac510
zac510
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:58 am

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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There is a problem with watching these slowed down replays and trying to make a judgement. Here is a summary of some research done on the matter:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/shortcu ... ads-juries

I am sure that both race stewards, fans, ex-racers and commentators all suffer from this effect when watching endless slow motion replays.

sosic2121
sosic2121
19
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:24 am
This weekend couldn't have gone any better for Hamilton.

Bottas falls back as expected when the car isn't perfect and if the pressure rises. This is the kind of focus that destroyed Rosberg.
Vettel is in the bag. For the third time this year and the second time around him he made a big mistake with this time acting like a spoiled entitled child. He broke him once again.
Honda isn't fast enough yet to have Verstappen around him.

WC6 is coming soon.
This kind comments about Seb's mentality are really stupid. Hamilton made numerous mistakes, but had superior car to cover for that.

roon
roon
449
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post

zac510 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:41 am
There is a problem with watching these slowed down replays and trying to make a judgement. Here is a summary of some research done on the matter:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/shortcu ... ads-juries

I am sure that both race stewards, fans, ex-racers and commentators all suffer from this effect when watching endless slow motion replays.
Might be part of why the ex-drivers are emphasizing a driver's focus during that sort of reentry is on car control not simply defending.
Last edited by roon on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post

GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:28 am
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:20 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:05 am

They were watching the same feed we were. The stewards had access to more information. Thus, the stewards are the ones that know what they're talking about.

It seems that people are happy to throw stewards under the bus these days. It's kind of reminiscent of politicians calling judges "enemy of the people" etc.
If the stewards decided the way which is written in this Autosport article someone posted above, then it's a joke. If they think that Vettel deliberately steered to the right, just screw this "acces to more information"! What we've seen there is called counter steering and you know that too. I don't need a bunch of people regularly deciding in a highly questionable manner to tell me wether it was counter steering or deliberate by looking at their fancy information. All the ex-drivers used a simple video footage and it was more than enough to interpret the situation.

Btw, seems like the stewards didn't have access to more information back in 2016?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzDkb3UW0w
You can take things out of context and justify everything. Without knowing the circumstances, this incident is being used to question what happened yesterday. The Monaco incident was a wet race and in that particular place, there was a puddle of water which drivers were avoiding. Lewis did the same, but Ric wanted go there as it was space available and obviously, his car misbehaved. While Lewis left perfect enough gap and then closed it when it was clean, Ric could have easily beached it on that puddle if he would have gone further. Ric wasnt anywhere close to make a pass there as he wasn't alongside as Lewis was to Vettel yesterday.

Go back and watch the Monaco race again.
If you think that the space Hamilton left was enough, then it's you who needs to go back and watch the Monaco race again. It's visible there was not enough space, but on top of that the line Hamilton forced Ric into was slippery because it was wet, as you've mentioned already. Ric even slided a bit.

To sum it up: Hamilton made a mistake, Ric kept his racing line, but was not only cut by Hamilton, but also forced to the wet side of the track (making him slide) and not given enough space too.

Yea... this surely was a completely different kind of incident and Hamilton was doing everything right, as ever. Just because.
Last edited by LM10 on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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iotar__
7
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:31 am

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

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- Missed the race but Vettel's penalty is one of the most obvious ones in the history of F1.
- Creating a media "controversy" around it instead of admitting to running out of talent is laughable. I can find literally 100 worse calls in the last decade. BTW another win lost from pole, congratulations.
- youtube F1 mo.. I mean experts are depressing #-o .

roon
roon
449
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:04 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post

Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:24 am
WC6 is coming soon.
Has been a safe bet for months at least.

mkay
mkay
3
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:58 am
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:28 am
LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:20 am


If the stewards decided the way which is written in this Autosport article someone posted above, then it's a joke. If they think that Vettel deliberately steered to the right, just screw this "acces to more information"! What we've seen there is called counter steering and you know that too. I don't need a bunch of people regularly deciding in a highly questionable manner to tell me wether it was counter steering or deliberate by looking at their fancy information. All the ex-drivers used a simple video footage and it was more than enough to interpret the situation.

Btw, seems like the stewards didn't have access to more information back in 2016?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzDkb3UW0w
You can take things out of context and justify everything. Without knowing the circumstances, this incident is being used to question what happened yesterday. The Monaco incident was a wet race and in that particular place, there was a puddle of water which drivers were avoiding. Lewis did the same, but Ric wanted go there as it was space available and obviously, his car misbehaved. While Lewis left perfect enough gap and then closed it when it was clean, Ric could have easily beached it on that puddle if he would have gone further. Ric wasnt anywhere close to make a pass there as he wasn't alongside as Lewis was to Vettel yesterday.

Go back and watch the Monaco race again.
If you think that the space Hamilton left was enough, then it's you who needs to go back and watch the Monaco race again. It's visible there was not enough space, but on top of that the line Hamilton forced Ric into was slippery because it was wet, as you've mentioned already. Ric even slided a bit.

To sum it up: Hamilton made a mistake, Ric kept his racing line, but was not only cut by Hamilton, but also forced to the wet side of the track (making him slide) and not given enough space too.

Yea... this surely was a completely different kind of incident and Hamilton was doing everything right, as ever. Just because.
Don't they say an image is worth a thousand words...

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