2019 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal June 7-9

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zibby43
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by zibby43 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:18 pm

Sorry if this was already posted, but here are '16 World Champion Nico Rosberg's thoughts (and indirectly, Keke's) on the matter:


erudite450
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by erudite450 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:20 pm

NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:13 pm
Here is the first example I have found, quick search...

A car taking to the grass at turn 3/4. Ricciardo in the Toro Rosso. He jumped across the grass at the last second to avoid a crash, so he didnt plan on going across the grass until the last second (Like Vettel) He then rejoined the track, had no one closing in on him yet still didnt need to use all the track, in a car with far less grip than the current cars. So I cant understand why ex-drivers say Seb had no choice when he clearly did.


http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=286 ... 26c27d0274

http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=c38 ... ba17bd7430

http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=142 ... b0a634c8a9

http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=948 ... 749e079d40

http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=f8f ... c46893b5f5

The car we are onboard with (Kimi) clearly hits the throttle harder and gets more oversteer and drifts wider showing that if you control the throttle better you car easlily control the trajectory of your car. If you listen to the ex-drivers who say Seb had no choice, it sounds like they are saying, if you go across the grass there, you can only avoid a crash by using the full width of the track! but its clear from a 10min search online that those drivers are talking BS.
Great job mate!

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by drunkf1fan » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:24 pm

Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:08 pm
I just want to know why Lewis was not penalized in Barcelona 2016 for running into Rosberg if entering a track unsafely is thing
Are you kidding? IN 2016 they found Rosberg was pretty much guilty because Hamilton had his wing alongside him on the track and Rosberg shoved him off the track. He lost control off track and was only there because Rosberg shoved him. If Rosberg hadn't also been wiped out you would almost certainly have seen Rosberg get a stop and go or at least a drive through penalty.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:35 pm

Bill wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:08 pm
I just want to know why Lewis was not penalized in Barcelona 2016 for running into Rosberg if entering a track unsafely is thing
Now you're just trolling... :roll:
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LM10
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by LM10 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:38 pm

zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:18 pm
Sorry if this was already posted, but here are '16 World Champion Nico Rosberg's thoughts (and indirectly, Keke's) on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gykAh22nbM
He corrected the part at 3:48 where he's telling that it's irrelevant if out of control or not. In the comments he wrote:
Actually this part is incorrect. Sorry. If out of control all the time whilst squeezing Lewis then no penalty. As you don’t get penalty for making a mistake going off and sliding back onto the track even if you end up hitting someone.
Vettel obviously was out of control and constantly trying to get the car under control again. What now?

NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:44 pm

As Nico goes on to say.... Vettel was definitely in control. Even I can see that. So it's a penalty
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Dazed1
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Dazed1 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:50 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:38 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:18 pm
Sorry if this was already posted, but here are '16 World Champion Nico Rosberg's thoughts (and indirectly, Keke's) on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gykAh22nbM
He corrected the part at 3:48 where he's telling that it's irrelevant if out of control or not. In the comments he wrote:
Actually this part is incorrect. Sorry. If out of control all the time whilst squeezing Lewis then no penalty. As you don’t get penalty for making a mistake going off and sliding back onto the track even if you end up hitting someone.
Vettel obviously was out of control and constantly trying to get the car under control again. What now?
It would seem to me making a safe return would involve brakes, steering AND throttle. The fact he was on the throttle strongly before getting into a safe location on track caused/allowed him to drift right with the excuse "What was I supposed to do?" Would every racer do the same thing? Probably. Does that excuse it? Not in my eyes. Yes, I am a Lewis fan but I was disappointed with the penalty because I believe Lewis would have passed Seb in the end. :wink:

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by zibby43 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:50 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:38 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:18 pm
Sorry if this was already posted, but here are '16 World Champion Nico Rosberg's thoughts (and indirectly, Keke's) on the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gykAh22nbM
He corrected the part at 3:48 where he's telling that it's irrelevant if out of control or not. In the comments he wrote:
Actually this part is incorrect. Sorry. If out of control all the time whilst squeezing Lewis then no penalty. As you don’t get penalty for making a mistake going off and sliding back onto the track even if you end up hitting someone.
Vettel obviously was out of control and constantly trying to get the car under control again. What now?
You didn't include his full comment, which concludes:

"Crucially, Vettel was definitely totally in control of his car in the latter part of squeezing Lewis where if Lewis would not have backed out there would have been a collision = unsafe rejoining = penalty."

NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:51 pm

At this point Seb regains full control. And that's being generous as I feel it was earlier than this.

Image

Yet he still ends up out this wide

Image
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Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Jolle » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:01 pm

Just imagine if Verstappen behaved like Vettel after the race....

NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by NathanOlder » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:04 pm

Jolle wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:01 pm
Just imagine if Verstappen behaved like Vettel after the race....
He'd have a couple more days community service :roll:
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dans79
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by dans79 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:04 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:17 pm

btw, you alright there buddy? Seems you got quite the argument there with yourself :lol:
The consequence of sitting on the beach and responding via smartphone.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:06 pm

I think the answer is very simple. Was Vettel capable of being more on the left?
the answer to that is just as simple: YES.

achieving that could have went 2 ways:

1. after regaining control at the middle of the track, with some speed, moving to the left, as the pictures above proves was possible.
2. before sliding onto the track, or whilst doing so, slow down further to avoid coming in the middle of the track, and as such be more on the left.

both were definately possible, even though as Vettel argumented scenario 2 would have been pretty hard and perhaps almost impossible.
scenario 1 however, was very much possible, BUT would have had the same effect as scenario 2 would have seen happening:

Hamilton going past with nothing to do about it anymore. meaning, losing the race in the latter stage due to a clumsy mistake.

I think Vettel has proven quite some time now that his nature is that he is both calculable and impulsive. in other words, he knows what might happen,
but still gets hotheaded and acts hotheaded instead of taking the wiser decision. Look at how he slammed into Hamilton in baku 2 years ago.
Look how he responded to the late charlie whiting in mexico. and look how he reacted when the race was finished.

So as in the FIA's decision to penalize him - as harsh as the outcome turned out for him, and ultimately, the team, the morale and all they're fighting for
at Ferrari - is, very much, a defendable and even deservable punishment.

Even more so because Hamilton had to make an 'emergency stop' to avoid collision, which compromised his race. Vettel compromised his own race but also that
of Hamilton, and let's be fair, that's not fair. It put Hamilton quite a distance behind him , whilst Lewis was very close behind him.

Even moreso, as Hamilton mentioned, he was probably going to overtake him anyway, and we all saw it more or less coming.
Instead, Vettel being under pressure collapsing, was again proven to happen, with that incident into the grass, which reminded me
very, very VERY much actually of the incident where Button (what was it, 2010, 2012?) was chasing him, ALSO in Canada,
and he spun which made it possible for Button to pass and win that GP.

Personally, i actually expected FIA to take no further action and call it a racing incident.
You might call that unfair - it might have been too.

But by actually penalizing Vettel 1 thing has been proven: they are most definately not in favour of Ferrari this year,
NOR are they artificially keeping the championship alive like has been mentioned in regards to the Vettel-Hamilton incident in baku 2 years ago.

On the other hand, there's now wide open for speculation that FIA is favouring and helping Mercedes.
Especially since there's already so much talk about how the tire changes have helped Mercedes quite a lot and other teams on the back foot.

One thing is clear though: it was an exiting race!
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:12 pm

I was also quite surprised that Vettel was not capable of keeping the car in 5 seconds distance from lewis after that incident. Lewis was much more than DRS distance behind him after that and that relieved a lot of pressure from Seb so i am surprised that he didn't make it, to be honest. Then again, Lewis was fast enough to keep within that 5 second window and then just cruise to avoid any mistakes and ruin his race, which proves all the more that if he went full out he'd probably overtake Vettel anyway.

Perhaps that would have even been worse, as after being overtaken, i'm sure Vettel would have given less of his all and then LeClerc came close enough to get the P2 spot from him.

Again though, i watched in full entertainment on Vettel's behaviour.
And i do maintain he has a good amount of points in what he mentioned. Even though the punishment is defendable and deserved.

Whatever. this is going to go on for a long time.

Still, Vettel is just 2 wins behind Lewis. If Hamilton gets 2 dnf's and Vettel wins both races, which we saw is very much possible, then they're fighting for the WDC with half the season still to go.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal June 7-9

Post by Jolle » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:14 pm

As long as Vettel keeps blaming everyone except himself after these mistakes, he will not learn from them and improve.

If he wants to beat Hamilton over a season, he can’t afford these.