2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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zibby43
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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LM10 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:12 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:55 pm
MtthsMlw wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:05 pm


Maybe partly due to a new technical directive further clamping down on RW flexing.
Interesting. So Ferrari were dumping drag on the straights by bolting the RW mainplane in a way that would facilitate movement/flexing.

Ferrari also apparently asked for 2 races worth of time to re-write their software that was exhaust blowing the crash structure furniture area.
That's not a fact. Ferrari was accusing Mercedes of doing so and Mercedes was accusing Ferrari of doing so. There is nothing which got confirmed.
I wasn't trying to assert it as such. I meant it as a question, in light of MtthsMlw's informative responsive. Just trying to connect the dots and figure out why Merc was suddenly able to keep up with Ferrari on the straights, particularly in Q3. If it were Merc allegedly doing this, I would've expected them to lose out even more, rather than cutting into the deficit.

Seems like the exhaust blowing software bit is more concrete, which is corroborated by the fact that Ferrari have even played around with wastegate/exhaust hardware configuration in the past seasons.

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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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dtro wrote:More interested to see if Renault/McLaren can continue their upward trend in form over the last couple of races in Austria. As much as I want to believe there are more similarities than differences between Austria and Bahrain- I don't see much changing in terms of the average performance of the top 3 teams. The length of the lap makes me think that there will be some embarrassing strategy calls/mistakes in cut-off times for the Reds, potentially for Gasly as well given his below average performance compared to Verstappen.

Also interested to see what upgrades, if any, will the teams that have struggled over the last few races bring.
Qualifying will be really interesting... With such a short lap, the delta between teams should be closer... Last year the top 8 was in within 1 second of each other and we had a larger spread in the midfield than what we have today.

The drivers will have a larger effect in their car performance also, since there isn’t a lot of lap time available to recover from mistakes.


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TAG
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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LM10 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:02 pm
There were no additional oil tanks last year and Ferrari kept on smoking the whole of last year, no matter the amount of sensors which were put on the car and the amount of scrutineering done.
You're right, that's because they were banned. My mistake though, it was 2017. At my age,the seasons just blend into each other. :P
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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TAG wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:20 pm
LM10 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:02 pm
There were no additional oil tanks last year and Ferrari kept on smoking the whole of last year, no matter the amount of sensors which were put on the car and the amount of scrutineering done.
You're right, that's because they were banned. My mistake though, it was 2017. At my age,the seasons just blend into each other. :P
Is winter coming?
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dans79
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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LM10 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:02 pm
In France Ferrari was still faster than Mercedes on the straight, despite having a bigger RW and a significant disadvantage coming out of the slow chicane right before the straight leading to the finish line.
The Qualifying speed difference came down a lot between Canada and France, even though the max speed increased overall.

Canada:
Vet - 333.3 KM/H
Bot - 327.7 KM/H
Diff 1.68%

France:
Vet - 340.3 KM/H
Ham - 338.6 KM/H
Diff 0.50%


In general, the idea of a "sloted" rear mount seems foolish to me. Anything more than a few mms of movement and even a casual fan would be able to notice the gap between the upper and lower element change. Not to mention the angle of attack would change very little given the chord of the main element. Thus you would have to have the main element on the verge of stalling all the time; not a car I would want to drive (think Williams a few seasons ago).
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izzy
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:30 pm
In general, the idea of a "sloted" rear mount seems foolish to me. Anything more than a few mms of movement and even a casual fan would be able to notice the gap between the upper and lower element change. Not to mention the angle of attack would change very little given the chord of the main element. Thus you would have to have the main element on the verge of stalling all the time; not a car I would want to drive (think Williams a few seasons ago).
I got the impression quite a few teams were doing it, they all love to stall the rear wing on the straights, like with the F-duct and the fluidic switch that was so F1 =D> . in my mind this slot could've been just like 3-4mm, hidden with a washer or something with a rubber component somewhere that yields under a certain force? Even just reducing the angle would've been worth it, and if they put the bolts close together a small amount of 'play' would've given some worthwhile angle change on the wing. Sweet loophole 8) , but now gone for Austria :(

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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Quick question on the rear wing issues. If the hole or holes for the 4 bolts are oblong so the wing can sit back under high load to reduce the drag. How does the wing return to the original position when you need the downforce?
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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The swan neck will give a returning moment i.e.. it acts like a spring
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zibby43
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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From the '18 Austrian GP Preview:

"In many ways, the Austrian GP shares many characteristics with Paul Ricard, requiring a blend of good straightline speed, and both low and high speed cornering performance. In addition, the asphalt is relatively new. The altitude of the circuit (approximately 800m above sea level) brings unique problems, with the turbochargers having to work harder to deliver the same power output from the drivetrain, while the lower density air also impacts cooling performance, both for the power unit/gearbox and the brakes.

Downforce vs Drag

Teams will tend to run a higher downforce set-up, with the altitude favouring such a configuration, although the presence of three relatively long straights may require those with lower power, and/or poor Aerodynamic efficiency, to sacrifice cornering speed more than others. The addition of a further DRS zone will also favour more downforce to be run, since the extra drag can be mitigated for along the straights in qualifying, yet result in improved cornering performance. Running higher downforce will also help keep the rear tyres under control during a race stint.

Car Strengths Needed

As mentioned above, a car with good all-round characteristics should fare well in Austria. Traction is very important from Turns 1, 3 and 4, while Aerodynamic performance dominates the final sector. Braking stability is also of key importance."

Full piece:

https://formulaone21.wordpress.com/2018 ... preview-2/

Webber2011
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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ajdavison2 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:37 am
Currently enroute to Spielberg for the grand prix. Can't wait, although we are driving from Newcastle (north east England for those that are curious) so wish me luck Haha! Doing a pitlane walk on Thursday for the first time so I'll try and snap any photos I can!
That's fantastic mate !
Have a great time, and really enjoy yourself !
Would be a great track to visit I reckon.
Just the location is wonderful.
It's very picturesque.

So enjoy !

(And share a few pictures if you like 😉)

👍🍺👍

roon
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:59 pm
The swan neck will give a returning moment i.e.. it acts like a spring
The wings are pretty big, and there's a camera pointed at them. Surely there are recordings. The swan necks look more prone to bending sideward not backward i.e. as a leafspring would. Might also consider the endplate supports bending. Aslo: are the wings pitching forward for stall or rearward for aoa reduction.

dans79
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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roon wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:22 pm
Aslo: are the wings pitching forward for stall or rearward for aoa reduction.
Based on the way the article is written it sounds like rearward.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Back in 2014 this track looked like a good chance for cars with great top speed but not such a great downforce in some corners as it happened with Williams. So I hope Ferrari can finaly have a full good weekend and win at least one race this season.

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izzy
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Vasconia wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:50 pm
Back in 2014 this track looked like a good chance for cars with great top speed but not such a great downforce in some corners as it happened with Williams. So I hope Ferrari can finaly have a full good weekend and win at least one race this season.
in 2014 the Mercedes engine was miles ahead of all the others. These days the engines aren't very different and it's all about exit speed. Downforce, traction, and tyres. The altitude is going to make downforce more of an issue than ever, so tho i too hope for a Ferrari revival I'm not expecting it to be any different from France, personally.

Just hoping (in vain i expect) they've stumbled on a TV director who has a clue about racing, and tunes into the midfield and how a pass is something that actually starts before the previous corner and can be anticipated , from the freaking gap

Mansell89
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Higher altitude this weekend than is the norm. Obviously Mexico is the highest but one thing I wanted to ask about was the Renault PU.

Red Bull have gone very well in Mexico in recent seasons and I recall a comment from Horner about the Renault PU brings stronger there than other tracks. Given they went very nicely in Austria last season too (also with Renault engine), could the likes of Renault & McLaren look forward to an increase in performance this weekend?

Anyone able to help an amateur like me understand why Red Bull Renault was so competitive at those two circuits last year?

Thanks in advance :)