2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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XRayF1
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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LM10 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:34 am

What Hamilton does is to crush his team mate, as he’s been doing since 2014. A bit of a shame because a driver among all time greats should face more competition in order to guarantee more excitement.
You are right, with the only exception being 2016 when he got a taste of his own medicine, when he was under stress of actually losing the title (as we all know he did at the end).

But everyone remembers 2014-16 only as the Silver Wars with HAM being the winner.
No one remembers ROS being the one team mate HAM really got troubles with (in the new era).
BOT is a very fine driver, but the time and speed difference btw HAM/ROS was much less than btw BOT/HAM.
BOT needs to step up his game, otherwise he will be replaced by Ocon for 2020.
9th race only or not.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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GPR -A wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:11 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:02 am
LM10 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:34 am

What Hamilton does is to crush his team mate, as he’s been doing since 2014. A bit of a shame because a driver among all time greats should face more competition in order to guarantee more excitement.
What, like Schumacher? :lol:
How many drivers can claim they fought with 5 world champions (Senna, Hill, Villeneuve, Mika and Alonso) in a straight battle for a championship, year over year?
Not in the same car, though, and he had the benefit of a contractual number 1 / number 2 relationship too. Hamilton has had three different world champions in the same car and has done pretty well against all 3, it has to be said.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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XRayF1 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:40 am

BOT needs to step up his game, otherwise he will be replaced by Ocon for 2020.
Will Ocon beat Hamilton?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Drivers in the all time greats have rarely had a great team mate. In my lifetime only Senna and Prost for 2 years in the 80's. Maybe Piquet and Mansell in 86,87. And a few pairings through the years before that.
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:56 am
Drivers in the all time greats have rarely had a great team mate. In my lifetime only Senna and Prost for 2 years in the 80's. Maybe Piquet and Mansell in 86,87. And a few pairings through the years before that.
Don’t forget Prost-Lauda and Prost-Mansell or even Prost-Rosberg and Prost-Hill. Thinking of it... Prost has had the worst team mates :P

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Yeah Prost Lauda came to mind, but was a bit too early for me. Prost Mansell I totally forgot, not sure what was happening in terms of team orders at Ferrari then. Surely Prost was clear number 1?

And Hill was put in last minute so was never a threat in the title.

But yes, Prost had more than his fair share of tough team mates. Lewis is the modern day version, compared to Vettel, Lewis has had it way way harder.
Last edited by NathanOlder on Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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wesley123
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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aran.vtec wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:54 am
please don't get us wrong Lewis is one of of the all time greats but half of the Job was done but being in the right team at the right time.
Doesn't that count for literally every WDC ever?
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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wesley123 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:06 am
aran.vtec wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:54 am
please don't get us wrong Lewis is one of of the all time greats but half of the Job was done but being in the right team at the right time.
Doesn't that count for literally every WDC ever?
Yup.
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XRayF1
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:42 am
XRayF1 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:40 am

BOT needs to step up his game, otherwise he will be replaced by Ocon for 2020.
Will Ocon beat Hamilton?
Good question.
I do not know the answer to that, but Ocon may still be a little bit more hungrier for success.

At the end Merc's management will make a judgement call by reflecting on BOT's performance by September-ish (Silly Season being in full swing) and make either an argument for extending BOT's contract, or replacing him with a known, at least equally fast, younger driver.

I hope for BOT, though - but if he does not get any new successes in, I really fear for him.

XRayF1
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:04 am
Yeah Prost Lauda came to mind, but was a bit too early for me. Prost Mansell I totally forgot, not sure what was happening in terms of team orders at Ferrari then. Surely Prost was clear number 1?

And Hill was put in last minute so was never a threat in the title.

But yes, Prost had more than his fair share of tough team mates. Lewis is the modern day version, compared to Vettel, Lewis has had it way way harder.
Do not forget Mansell Piquet ...

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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XRayF1 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:08 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:04 am
Yeah Prost Lauda came to mind, but was a bit too early for me. Prost Mansell I totally forgot, not sure what was happening in terms of team orders at Ferrari then. Surely Prost was clear number 1?

And Hill was put in last minute so was never a threat in the title.

But yes, Prost had more than his fair share of tough team mates. Lewis is the modern day version, compared to Vettel, Lewis has had it way way harder.
Do not forget Mansell Piquet ...
Yeah..... My previous post.
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izzy
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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XRayF1 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:07 am
Good question.
I do not know the answer to that, but Ocon may still be a little bit more hungrier for success.

At the end Merc's management will make a judgement call by reflecting on BOT's performance by September-ish (Silly Season being in full swing) and make either an argument for extending BOT's contract, or replacing him with a known, at least equally fast, younger driver.

I hope for BOT, though - but if he does not get any new successes in, I really fear for him.
One big thing with Valtteri is that Toto knows with nearly 100% certainty that he and Lewis will come out of T1 in Austria without touching or running each other off, and same in all the other corners.

With Esteban, he couldn't be so sure

LM10
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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XRayF1 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:07 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:42 am
XRayF1 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:40 am

BOT needs to step up his game, otherwise he will be replaced by Ocon for 2020.
Will Ocon beat Hamilton?
Good question.
I do not know the answer to that, but Ocon may still be a little bit more hungrier for success.

At the end Merc's management will make a judgement call by reflecting on BOT's performance by September-ish (Silly Season being in full swing) and make either an argument for extending BOT's contract, or replacing him with a known, at least equally fast, younger driver.

I hope for BOT, though - but if he does not get any new successes in, I really fear for him.
Bottas is very hungry as well. The thing is that Hamilton is simply better. Bottas can get as hungry as possible, he won't be able to beat Hamilton. Being hungry may let you nail it in qualifying for example, but in race trim Lewis is a level above, as seen again in France. As for qualifying, Hamilton seems to start upping his game in that category, too, in the last few weekends, after having had a relatively bad start to it.

Wynters
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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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LM10 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:31 am
Bottas is very hungry as well. The thing is that Hamilton is simply better. Bottas can get as hungry as possible, he won't be able to beat Hamilton. Being hungry may let you nail it in qualifying for example, but in race trim Lewis is a level above, as seen again in France.
Agreed. Hamilton has a few strengths but amongst his most valuable is the sheer metronomic efficiency he can produce, lap after lap after lap after lap. As Rosberg and others have shown, he can be vulnerable in Q3 but, like Vettel, if he leads after lap 1 I don't see anybody catching him without external intervention.

Bottas is a good driver, but is he a good driver every single corner of every single lap? Probably not. I suspect he also suffers from not having much experience fighting for the title. Hamilton knows that coming away from a bad weekend with a podium can be just as valuable as coming away from an easy weekend with a win. He's learnt that lesson fighting with Alonso (initially), Rosberg (most acutely), and, to a lesser extent, Button and Vettel (in his RBR years). By the time Bottas got in the car, Hamilton was fighting tooth and nail for every single point. In contrast, if Bottas is in contention, then he's super motivated and right on it. But equally it feels as if, when Bottas starts struggling to stay with his title rival, he just falls away as if he has written-off the whole weekend.

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Re: 2019 [R09] Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg, 28-30 June

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spin1/2 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:45 am
Am I the only one loving this season?
I'm a Hamilton fan and I want to see him win, but not like this.

He's at he's very best when chasing people down, no once can compete with his focus and speed in these situations, these will be the memories I cherish when he's gone, not leading every lap.