2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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maxxer
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:53 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:23 pm
Interesting race. The biggest take-away for me is that the FIA is truly lost without Charlie Whiting. RIP Charlie, you a sorely missed.

The race should have been red flagged restarted when Leclerc went off. Lots of cars on slicks on a very wet circuit. It's almost as if Bernie was in control. A driver was walking on circuit and drivers were left carry on at racing speed. Disgusting. Absolutely appalling. Leclerc could have very well joined his best friend Bianchi.
don't overreact here, LeClerc wasn't the only one going off in that area so keep it cool .... and this was far away of being red flagged, but i guess you rather love to look at checker or see the grass grow....
The teams made massive mistakes how could they even go out on mediums while there was barely a dry line. The strategy boys will have to go back to do their homework for sure. and the "get in there lewis" guys will have to learn how to say stay of the wet parts of the circuit.

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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maxxer wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:33 pm
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:53 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:23 pm
Interesting race. The biggest take-away for me is that the FIA is truly lost without Charlie Whiting. RIP Charlie, you a sorely missed.

The race should have been red flagged restarted when Leclerc went off. Lots of cars on slicks on a very wet circuit. It's almost as if Bernie was in control. A driver was walking on circuit and drivers were left carry on at racing speed. Disgusting. Absolutely appalling. Leclerc could have very well joined his best friend Bianchi.
don't overreact here, LeClerc wasn't the only one going off in that area so keep it cool .... and this was far away of being red flagged, but i guess you rather love to look at checker or see the grass grow....
The teams made massive mistakes how could they even go out on mediums while there was barely a dry line. The strategy boys will have to go back to do their homework for sure. and the "get in there lewis" guys will have to learn how to say stay of the wet parts of the circuit.

If you look up the data you'll see why. Magnussen took a risk, he went out on slicks as people nearing the back take risks. Without looking up the numbers again lets say Mag pitted on say lap 21-22, he went pretty fast and sped up over a few laps then did one lap faster than Hamilton. Factor in a slower car, but also that the inters are nearly slicks at this point but with small groves so marginally better grip, but no where near the water displacement of full new inter tires, and lastly that he only went 0.7 seconds faster than Hamilton. I think Verstappen pitted on the very next lap so I can understand teams seeing that Mag time and going we can go slicks now, also their inters were gone but again remember their inters were closer to slicks and pretty safe.

The giant issue was Magnussen on that next lap was 1.2 seconds slower than Hamilton, that's a 1.9 second lap time drop compared to Hamilton. It started raining again that lap, not heavily but enough to make a difference. Keep in mind that last corner has this flat area of asphalt that doesn't drain water, it also means that any rain doesn't soak into the ground there as it does the rest of the track and slowly get wetter, it hits that asphalt and immediately flows down over the track so the second it's even light rain S3 gets bad VERY fast.

So Verstappen pitted with the team thinking Mag on slicks is the fastest guy on track in a way slower car, not a big leap that it was time for slicks.

Verstappen spins like --- in the final sector and could just as easily have spun on the outside and gone off like Leclerc/Ham. I think Bottas came in about the same lap, Leclerc came in the next lap maybe and Ham presumably was in the pits or had pit before Leclerc actually hit the wall. However I think when Ham and probably Leclerc pitted they would have seen the verstappen spin, and had an extra lap or two to react to Mag's dropping times and various radio calls saying it's getting wetter in S3.

It makes absolute sense why some of these guys went on to slicks because as often happens they wait for someone to risk it then jump as the guy on slicks becomes fastest. It's just that the lap after that happened rain started which screwed up the race completely for some people.

Merc with 2 laps over Verstappen, I think made a truly boneheaded call for Ham. he apparently asked for the inters, not sure if he told them it was raining in S3 but probably did, they also had two laps to see Mag dropped almost 2 seconds to Hamilton. If Ham pits to inters, one stop, safe on track, track position, probably cruises to the finish line.

Verstappen's pitstop I think was the usual RBR instant reaction and very very bad luck for it to rain, then extreme luck that even though he lost it just like Leclerc and Hamilton, the outcome wasn't bad.

digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Got a weird question. Anyone know the cars that Vettel and Leclerc were being driven around in on the parade lap? I think they were Astons?

roon
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Wow what a race, couldn´t watch it till yesterday...

First of all congratulations to Max, Honda, Seb and Kvyat, all of them deserved their achivements

As posted in the McLaren thread, Strol went for slicks from the back of the grid, but Kvyat was 9th, so his decisions had a lot more merit, they risked two points, but it paid off and changed it for an unbelieveble podium for STR

Vettel, from last to second, wow

Max, from a spin to the victory, awesome

Kvyat, no words, incredible

Honda must be on a dream, second victory. Imagine if someone tell them about this at the beginning of past season... :lol: :lol:


About Sainz, he said at the end of the race (at the spanish TV) the decision to stay with inters when everybody was going to slicks was his, and he also wondered about slicks when Strol and Kvyat put them in, but they were 5th at that point and it was too much of a risk, but can´t stop thinking about the podium they´ve missed


Two consecutive awesome races.... what´s going on with F1? :mrgreen:

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Vasconia
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:59 am

Two consecutive awesome races.... what´s going on with F1? :mrgreen:
Three, Austria was pretty fine IMO. :mrgreen:

The race was amazing but I try to keep in mind that Mercedes was clearly faster before all the SF/pit-stops/mistakes chaos which once agains shows that in wet they are superior. Ferrari didn´t look particulary fast in wet. Lecler couldn´t follow the silver arrows and Vettel was quite cautious.

When the conditions were mixed RB looked very strong and curiously also TR, both Kyvat and Albon were very competitive.

Too bad that Sainz couldn´t achieve his first podium but his tyres were gone, anyway I was expecting a little bit more.

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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drunkf1fan wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:53 am
maxxer wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:33 pm
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:53 pm

don't overreact here, LeClerc wasn't the only one going off in that area so keep it cool .... and this was far away of being red flagged, but i guess you rather love to look at checker or see the grass grow....
The teams made massive mistakes how could they even go out on mediums while there was barely a dry line. The strategy boys will have to go back to do their homework for sure. and the "get in there lewis" guys will have to learn how to say stay of the wet parts of the circuit.

If you look up the data you'll see why. Magnussen took a risk, he went out on slicks as people nearing the back take risks. Without looking up the numbers again lets say Mag pitted on say lap 21-22, he went pretty fast and sped up over a few laps then did one lap faster than Hamilton. Factor in a slower car, but also that the inters are nearly slicks at this point but with small groves so marginally better grip, but no where near the water displacement of full new inter tires, and lastly that he only went 0.7 seconds faster than Hamilton. I think Verstappen pitted on the very next lap so I can understand teams seeing that Mag time and going we can go slicks now, also their inters were gone but again remember their inters were closer to slicks and pretty safe.

The giant issue was Magnussen on that next lap was 1.2 seconds slower than Hamilton, that's a 1.9 second lap time drop compared to Hamilton. It started raining again that lap, not heavily but enough to make a difference. Keep in mind that last corner has this flat area of asphalt that doesn't drain water, it also means that any rain doesn't soak into the ground there as it does the rest of the track and slowly get wetter, it hits that asphalt and immediately flows down over the track so the second it's even light rain S3 gets bad VERY fast.

So Verstappen pitted with the team thinking Mag on slicks is the fastest guy on track in a way slower car, not a big leap that it was time for slicks.

Verstappen spins like --- in the final sector and could just as easily have spun on the outside and gone off like Leclerc/Ham. I think Bottas came in about the same lap, Leclerc came in the next lap maybe and Ham presumably was in the pits or had pit before Leclerc actually hit the wall. However I think when Ham and probably Leclerc pitted they would have seen the verstappen spin, and had an extra lap or two to react to Mag's dropping times and various radio calls saying it's getting wetter in S3.

It makes absolute sense why some of these guys went on to slicks because as often happens they wait for someone to risk it then jump as the guy on slicks becomes fastest. It's just that the lap after that happened rain started which screwed up the race completely for some people.

Merc with 2 laps over Verstappen, I think made a truly boneheaded call for Ham. he apparently asked for the inters, not sure if he told them it was raining in S3 but probably did, they also had two laps to see Mag dropped almost 2 seconds to Hamilton. If Ham pits to inters, one stop, safe on track, track position, probably cruises to the finish line.

Verstappen's pitstop I think was the usual RBR instant reaction and very very bad luck for it to rain, then extreme luck that even though he lost it just like Leclerc and Hamilton, the outcome wasn't bad.
a lot changed on slick when is was starting to rain again...
I grinned when they gave HAM slicks.
If the would haven given him inters it would have been GAME OVER, most likely.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

Diesel
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:55 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:50 pm
Alfa Romeo given 30 seconds for having illegal cars? That's a DSQ surely? WTH is going on right now? Michael Masi, are you even qualified?
are you even know what you are talking about ..... maybe this forum should put up a F1 test see who qualifies on giving comments ..... you would fail by a big margine
Care to enlighten me then?
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP

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Zarathustra
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:55 pm
are you even know what you are talking about ..... maybe this forum should put up a F1 test see who qualifies on giving comments ..... you would fail by a big margine
“Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.”

:wtf:

Mandrake
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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I think partially it was aided by the conditions. Due to the wet weather he entered the pit stall a lot slower than usual so the work could begin even earlier than usual. Overall total time will most likely be longer than an average dry weather pit stop. But impressive nevertheless.

Mandrake
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:26 pm
rogazilla wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:38 am


this is a bullshit claim and you know it...
i am not a fan of Ferrari but stay realistic.
VER got his penalty because he touched with Bottas in Monaco
Ferrari, as team, got the fine because this was a perfect example of "unsafe release" as the rule should be and was ment for....
so don't search anything that isn't there
I think this is a dangerous precedent because the large team will be releasing car closer and closer to the limit as long as they are not crashing because they can afford the fines. It is worth the fine for Leclerc instead of waiting for Haas to pass which would be another second or 2.
I agree it is an dangerous precedent, but that decision itself was correct, because the team should have hold him at his place, this because the driver doesn't see much during this pitstop due to the team running around the car (its already hard when you are alone in the pit, let stand when 6-7 other teams are standing there and waiting) .... so in this case the team was at fault and not the driver, the team should have hold Leclerc back, the fine spoken out was way to lenient that i critizise... it should have been 10x higher at least
Thing is: the rules do not foresee what happens in a Safetycar situation. If you are first in the order and your pitstall is right in the beginning of the pits, you will have to let everyone through by no fault of your own. That's why they let out Leclerc because there were 3 or 4 cars coming straight after. And he probably accelerated less well on the wet road than he would have had on a dry pit road. Maybe the lollipop guy misjudged as well.

sosic2121
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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rogazilla wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm
I think this is a dangerous precedent because the large team will be releasing car closer and closer to the limit as long as they are not crashing because they can afford the fines. It is worth the fine for Leclerc instead of waiting for Haas to pass which would be another second or 2.
As a die hard Ferrari fan I have to say I agree with you 100%

It's simply not fair nor safe. This time Charles benefited, and in Silverstone Max maybe benefited.

Maybe pits should be wider to allow 2 cars but as it is IMO it's too dangerous.

Jolle
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:31 pm
rogazilla wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm
I think this is a dangerous precedent because the large team will be releasing car closer and closer to the limit as long as they are not crashing because they can afford the fines. It is worth the fine for Leclerc instead of waiting for Haas to pass which would be another second or 2.
As a die hard Ferrari fan I have to say I agree with you 100%

It's simply not fair nor safe. This time Charles benefited, and in Silverstone Max maybe benefited.

Maybe pits should be wider to allow 2 cars but as it is IMO it's too dangerous.
What Verstappen/Redbull did in Silverstone was within the rules. Before every GP in the event notes is stated where you can drive in the pit lane. In Silverstone this was including the strip with the drivers names on there. That’s why it wasn’t even investigated. I’m Monaco however, the notes stated the pit lane was much narrower and wouldn’t hold two cars but the stewards said now that Verstappen was penalized because he made contact with Bottas and because there was no contact in Germany, Leclerc didn’t get a penalty.

This will set a strange president. If Bottas would of braked and avoided an accident in Monaco, he would have been third and Verstappen second. Next time it’s close in the pit lane and they are in position, there will be wheel banging to make sure someone gets a penalty and you keep your position.

Mamba
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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I really don't understand why people are here talking down driver's achievements in this race. All this Vettel's race wasn't as good as Hamilton's last year and stuff. Hamilton destroyed his own race in a sense this year by going off. His team wasn't ready plus the pit entry penalty did him in. Verstappen himself is lucky to have survived that spin. Vettel kept his nose clean (perhaps not the fastest yes), but he made it to the end for a deserved second. Plus, last year was dry wet and not wet dryish - so comparing two races with nothing in common besides venue is a waste of time. We'll never know how Vettel might have fared under different circumstances... Perhaps one better, or perhaps worse. We won't know.
All of the back markers scoring deserved it too. Keeping things safe (out of gravel and walls) with a few bold calls here and there. Great stuff and a very unpredictable race. Isn't that exactly what we want?

Jolle
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Mamba wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:02 pm
I really don't understand why people are here talking down driver's achievements in this race. All this Vettel's race wasn't as good as Hamilton's last year and stuff. Hamilton destroyed his own race in a sense this year by going off. His team wasn't ready plus the pit entry penalty did him in. Verstappen himself is lucky to have survived that spin. Vettel kept his nose clean (perhaps not the fastest yes), but he made it to the end for a deserved second. Plus, last year was dry wet and not wet dryish - so comparing two races with nothing in common besides venue is a waste of time. We'll never know how Vettel might have fared under different circumstances... Perhaps one better, or perhaps worse. We won't know.
All of the back markers scoring deserved it too. Keeping things safe (out of gravel and walls) with a few bold calls here and there. Great stuff and a very unpredictable race. Isn't that exactly what we want?
Like I said before, at any Grand Prix, driving a car from one of the top three teams, you are expected to finish at least as the last of the top three team cars. Vettel did that, the only thing was, that there was just one other top team car that kept its nose clean.