2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Mamba
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:06 pm
Like I said before, at any Grand Prix, driving a car from one of the top three teams, you are expected to finish at least as the last of the top three team cars. Vettel did that, the only thing was, that there was just one other top team car that kept its nose clean.
Then why criticize that? It's not his fault the others crashed out...

Jolle
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Mamba wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:12 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:06 pm
Like I said before, at any Grand Prix, driving a car from one of the top three teams, you are expected to finish at least as the last of the top three team cars. Vettel did that, the only thing was, that there was just one other top team car that kept its nose clean.
Then why criticize that? It's not his fault the others crashed out...
That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm
Mamba wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:12 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:06 pm
Like I said before, at any Grand Prix, driving a car from one of the top three teams, you are expected to finish at least as the last of the top three team cars. Vettel did that, the only thing was, that there was just one other top team car that kept its nose clean.
Then why criticize that? It's not his fault the others crashed out...
That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.
May I ask, mindgame, what if MV33 crashed and on the second spin miss the barierre by mere centimeters and then called for bringing the car in. Would you still be as lenient? And What if LH44 pulled a gap on all the rest 3 times, would you still be so indifferent?
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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Zarathustra
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm

That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.
Whois your favorite driver- if I may ask?

Jolle
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:22 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm
Mamba wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:12 pm


Then why criticize that? It's not his fault the others crashed out...
That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.
May I ask, mindgame, what if MV33 crashed and on the second spin miss the barierre by mere centimeters and then called for bringing the car in. Would you still be as lenient? And What if LH44 pulled a gap on all the rest 3 times, would you still be so indifferent?
I don't know. might have. All I could see was a solid drive without taking any risks and waiting for the safety cars to make stops. If Stroll can go from last to almost the podium in the last 20 laps, from tenth to second without any real opposition can't be that difficult.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:26 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm

That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.
Whois your favorite driver- if I may ask?
James Hunt & Gilles Villeneuve

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:37 pm
Sieper wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:22 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm


That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.
May I ask, mindgame, what if MV33 crashed and on the second spin miss the barierre by mere centimeters and then called for bringing the car in. Would you still be as lenient? And What if LH44 pulled a gap on all the rest 3 times, would you still be so indifferent?
I don't know. might have. All I could see was a solid drive without taking any risks and waiting for the safety cars to make stops. If Stroll can go from last to almost the podium in the last 20 laps, from tenth to second without any real opposition can't be that difficult.
Stroll was just the first low classified driver to gamble on the slicks. That payed off for him. But indeed that was not so special. Verstappen actually pulled a gap 3 times (10 seconds each time) after every SC restart when he was in front. In conditions were others still spun off. Bottas f.e. Whilst trying to overtake Stroll, something Verstappen already succesfully did several laps before.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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Zarathustra
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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#-o
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:38 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:26 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm

That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.
Whois your favorite driver- if I may ask?
James Hunt & Gilles Villeneuve
Then I understand- thanks.

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Capharol
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Mandrake wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:22 pm
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:26 pm
rogazilla wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm

I think this is a dangerous precedent because the large team will be releasing car closer and closer to the limit as long as they are not crashing because they can afford the fines. It is worth the fine for Leclerc instead of waiting for Haas to pass which would be another second or 2.
I agree it is an dangerous precedent, but that decision itself was correct, because the team should have hold him at his place, this because the driver doesn't see much during this pitstop due to the team running around the car (its already hard when you are alone in the pit, let stand when 6-7 other teams are standing there and waiting) .... so in this case the team was at fault and not the driver, the team should have hold Leclerc back, the fine spoken out was way to lenient that i critizise... it should have been 10x higher at least
Thing is: the rules do not foresee what happens in a Safetycar situation. If you are first in the order and your pitstall is right in the beginning of the pits, you will have to let everyone through by no fault of your own. That's why they let out Leclerc because there were 3 or 4 cars coming straight after. And he probably accelerated less well on the wet road than he would have had on a dry pit road. Maybe the lollipop guy misjudged as well.
exactly and thats why the team got the fine and not the driver ......
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
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Capharol
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Diesel wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:03 pm
Capharol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:55 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:50 pm
Alfa Romeo given 30 seconds for having illegal cars? That's a DSQ surely? WTH is going on right now? Michael Masi, are you even qualified?
are you even know what you are talking about ..... maybe this forum should put up a F1 test see who qualifies on giving comments ..... you would fail by a big margine
Care to enlighten me then?
if you put a lighter above your head maybe the candle can :wink: ..... so no because if you dont even see the mistake in your comments (not only this one) then it would be impossible for me to "enlighten" you on a opinion you have that is faulty from the start.....
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

Edax
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:37 pm
Sieper wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:22 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:18 pm


That it was a solid drive, not something remarkable special.
May I ask, mindgame, what if MV33 crashed and on the second spin miss the barierre by mere centimeters and then called for bringing the car in. Would you still be as lenient? And What if LH44 pulled a gap on all the rest 3 times, would you still be so indifferent?
I don't know. might have. All I could see was a solid drive without taking any risks and waiting for the safety cars to make stops. If Stroll can go from last to almost the podium in the last 20 laps, from tenth to second without any real opposition can't be that difficult.
I wouldn’t call it risk-less. Vettel did a lot of overtakes in the last few laps, which is not easy when there is one dry line and you have to dip your slicks in the cold, wet and greasy stuff to get past.

Easy to get it wrong and hard to make it look this clean and simple.

dtro
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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siskue2005 wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:56 pm
dtro wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:06 pm
Why is there an issue with the team getting fined as opposed to the driver? When various teams had wheel nut issues and released a car with a tire that would fall off they either stop them before pit exit, or if they notice too late order them to stop somewhere safe. The team gets the fine and this the rule cited is a "unsafe release."

Mountains out of molehills.
because, Leclerc if not released at the unsafe manner, he would have lost 3 to 4 seconds in that process... so in effect he gained time by illegally releasing early and also there is a matter of dangers to the pit crews.

Moreover it was ferrari fans who were talking about all the unpunished things and crying at fia twitter etc, so when the roles are reveresed suddenly ferrari fans are talking about not giving any penalty and changing their view like that :oops:

all these have caused this out roar
My point still stands, Ferrari fans are making mountains out of molehills, fans of other teams are making mountains out of molehills with regards to how a fan of another team perceives a certain event. What incentive does any team have to knowingly release a vehicle in an unsafe manner? Regardless of whether or not the team or the driver foots the bill or penalty. It would in effect be knowingly shooting yourself in the foot and expecting to finish a race.

Just doesn't compute. I can see ignorance or negligence being an overriding factor. But regardless- a monetary fine being imposed on the team makes sense in the event of an unsafe release and a tire isn't fitted properly or in the event of an unsafe release from the pitbox into pitlane traffic. Chuckles (or any driver for that matter) isn't sitting in the car with a great idea of when to go, team says go, he goes. The team is the operationally negligent party, not the driver.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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I agree with Pedro de la Rosa, who said at the spanish broadcasting it´s not that difficult for drivers to also take a look before invading the lane . They have mirrors for something


About Vettel, I can see some erratic comparisons with Strol, who had a huge tire advantage thanks to a daring bet while in SC wich is a bit absurd if you ask me. Vettel kept his nose clean on a race where I can´t cound how many spins and mistakes we saw. Hamilton, Bottas, Verstappen, Gasly, Lecrerc, Sainz, Hulkemberg... almost everyone made some mistake. Except Vettel. That should mean something on those difficult conditions.

And I´m far from a Vettel fan, but I have no problem to admit when he´s done a great job

denskits
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Re: 2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

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Seb learned his lessons well. No one can argue ,experience is the best teacher at any age.


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sosic2121
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF90

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:43 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:31 pm
rogazilla wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:41 pm
I think this is a dangerous precedent because the large team will be releasing car closer and closer to the limit as long as they are not crashing because they can afford the fines. It is worth the fine for Leclerc instead of waiting for Haas to pass which would be another second or 2.
As a die hard Ferrari fan I have to say I agree with you 100%

It's simply not fair nor safe. This time Charles benefited, and in Silverstone Max maybe benefited.

Maybe pits should be wider to allow 2 cars but as it is IMO it's too dangerous.
What Verstappen/Redbull did in Silverstone was within the rules. Before every GP in the event notes is stated where you can drive in the pit lane. In Silverstone this was including the strip with the drivers names on there. That’s why it wasn’t even investigated. I’m Monaco however, the notes stated the pit lane was much narrower and wouldn’t hold two cars but the stewards said now that Verstappen was penalized because he made contact with Bottas and because there was no contact in Germany, Leclerc didn’t get a penalty.

This will set a strange president. If Bottas would of braked and avoided an accident in Monaco, he would have been third and Verstappen second. Next time it’s close in the pit lane and they are in position, there will be wheel banging to make sure someone gets a penalty and you keep your position.
IMO this is exactly what is wrong with F1 today!

Bottas needed to collide with Max in order for Max to get penalty!

I was not aware of Silverstone pit rules. Anyway I agree with you.

It's a bad decision!