2019 German Grand Prix - Hockenheimring, July 26-28

[ENGINE TUNER]

That's one of those insane stats that you don't think about but... insane.

Senna had a very similar long streak on winning every rain race over a 4 or 5 year period as well. It was also insane and only ended because of a car failure while leading handily in the rain in canada.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Wait is this true?

Well, all but Hungary 2014 which he could have won from the pit lane if it weren't for a faulty cylinder at the end of the race.

Yes he is a great driver, as is (amongst many other feats) proven by his record against any opponent he went against in the same car. But merc has had a big power advantage since 2014 which they always used for driving with more downforce. That’s a big advantage to have in the rain.

So what stopped his teammate from accumulating a similarly impressive record?

[Pyrone89]

Just Will Buxton comparing the moon landing effort with the efforts of a midfield F1 racing team. Jesus, doesnt that guy ever think: this might be a stretch

What is next, comparing D-Day with the logistics of a fly away race?

[Just_a_fan]

That's one of those insane stats that you don't think about but... insane.

To be fair he has had the very best car in the wet since 2014 and only to contend Rosberg and Bottas with, who are, lets say politely, not big on wet driving. If he had a Button next to him this stat would be very different. But as discussed before, this holds true for a lot of his stats if you deduct the Merc from it (2007-2013 stats).

His 2007-2013 stats are pretty good as well, to be fair. Button's Canada win was pretty sublime though.

That would be the Canada win where Button chopped across Hamilton as he tried to overtake him on the start straight? Button was lucky he ended Hamilton's race and not his own.

[Pyrone89]

Well, all but Hungary 2014 which he could have won from the pit lane if it weren't for a faulty cylinder at the end of the race.

Yes he is a great driver, as is (amongst many other feats) proven by his record against any opponent he went against in the same car. But merc has had a big power advantage since 2014 which they always used for driving with more downforce. That’s a big advantage to have in the rain.

So what stopped his teammate from accumulating a similarly impressive record?

Nothimg apart from them being less talented than those drivers. But the point is there are a number of drivers more talented than Bottas and Rosberg in the wet and those drivers could have had the same record if in Hamilton’s position, making it not some godlike achievement it is made out to be here.

In fact I think the following recent drivers would 100% have the exact same wet record as Hamilton’s Merc wet record when in his position:
1. Verstappen
2. Alonso
3. Button

Not to mention the number of drivers that are likely to be better in the wet than Rosberg and Bottas yet may have lost 1 or 2 at most (Vettel, Kimi, Ricciardo etc)


I am gonna exclude Norris and Russell because they have yet too prove themselves.

[Pyrone89]

He was on 8 more wins than Coulthard before he got the Merc rocketship.

...

Look it up, I may be one or two off but he was on low 20’s wins before joing the most dominant team in the history of F1 (and perhaps sport in a wider context). Dont mistake it, Hamilton is an absolute top level driver, but without the Merc (so in end of 00’s competitiveness style grids) he would now be closing in on Senna’s number of wins and titles (a career cut short), not Schumachers. Still very impressive.

[Jolle]

Rain should normally is the great leveler, where power doesn’t matter and it’s more about the driver. He won the last 9 wet races, over 5 years. Dominated some, was lucky at others but impressive non the less and a clear sign that he’s got exceptional racing craft.

Some of the races, three come in mind (Monaco, Silverstone and Germany) he made up a bad qualifying.

[dans79]

He was on 8 more wins than Coulthard before he got the Merc rocketship.

Coultard has 13 wins across 14 seasons. Lewis has 22 across 7. Coultard only had 3 or more wins in 1 season, Lewis has 3 or more in 5 seasons.

[Pyrone89]

He was on 8 more wins than Coulthard before he got the Merc rocketship.

Coultard has 13 wins across 14 seasons. Lewis has 22 across 7. Coultard only had 3 or more wins in 1 season, Lewis has 3 or more in 5 seasons.

So it was 9 instead of 8.

[Pyrone89]

Rain should normally is the great leveler, where power doesn’t matter and it’s more about the driver. He won the last 9 wet races, over 5 years. Dominated some, was lucky at others but impressive non the less and a clear sign that he’s got exceptional racing craft.

Some of the races, three come in mind (Monaco, Silverstone and Germany) he made up a bad qualifying.

That is a farce that keeps gettimg repeated.

First of all, it is not an equalizer in general because you rely even more on having a proper balanced car as there is no room for catching the car/‘dragging it along’ as it means instant spin. So cars with good aero and mechanical grip will increase their advantage (check Mercedes and until 2016 RB).

Secondly engine is not less important than in the dry, but the emphasis on the engine strengths is completely different. In the dry peak and sustained performance is key, drivability a very important aspect but ‘you can drive around it’ as shown in history multiple times. In the wet the emphasis shifts dramatically to drivability and peak and sustained performance is less important. Now if you can say something about the Merc is that it has both in abundance over the others. Only recently Ferrari have started to challenge and perhaps in quali mode overtake them with peak performance (not sustained).

[Jolle]

He was on 8 more wins than Coulthard before he got the Merc rocketship.

Coultard has 13 wins across 14 seasons. Lewis has 22 across 7. Coultard only had 3 or more wins in 1 season, Lewis has 3 or more in 5 seasons.

So it was 9 instead of 8.

10 when you subtract the Williams win. Only 12 wins over 9 seasons of McLaren, during McLaren’s best periode since the dominating senna years.

[Pyrone89]

Coultard has 13 wins across 14 seasons. Lewis has 22 across 7. Coultard only had 3 or more wins in 1 season, Lewis has 3 or more in 5 seasons.

So it was 9 instead of 8.

10 when you subtract the Williams win. Only 12 wins over 9 seasons of McLaren, during McLaren’s best periode since the dominating senna years.

You realise you are proving my point right? That the story/context behind the stats are important to properly assess how worthy those stats are. That is why I intentionally chose Coulthard, not Jackie Stewart or co.

[Just_a_fan]

He was on 8 more wins than Coulthard before he got the Merc rocketship.

...

Look it up, I may be one or two off but he was on low 20’s wins before joing the most dominant team in the history of F1 (and perhaps sport in a wider context)

He had more wins than Andretti (1 title), G Hill (2 titles), Brabham (3 titles), Button (1 title), Hakkinen (2 titles) and Raikonnen (1 title) before he joined Mercedes. So what?

How many wins did Vettel have before he joined the rocket-ship producing Red Bull? 1. He's had a total of 14 wins (that's 7 fewer than Hamilton in non-Mercedes cars) in non-RedBull cars. In his last year at RedBull his team mate won 3-0 against him.

[Just_a_fan]

Dont mistake it, Hamilton is an absolute top level driver, but without the Merc (so in end of 00’s competitiveness style grids) he would now be closing in on Senna’s number of wins and titles (a career cut short), not Schumachers. Still very impressive.

Schumacher's figures are a product of the amazing Ferrari stable of the early 2000s, coupled with bespoke tyres from Bridgestone and unlimited testing at their own facility. Oh, and contractual No.2 drivers who were noting more than sparring partners for him.

If you're going to chuck comparisons around, at least compare like with like.

[Jolle]

So it was 9 instead of 8.

10 when you subtract the Williams win. Only 12 wins over 9 seasons of McLaren, during McLaren’s best periode since the dominating senna years.

You realise you are proving my point right? That the story/context behind the stats are important to properly assess how worthy those stats are. That is why I intentionally chose Coulthard, not Jackie Stewart or co.

Yes and no. Yes the car is the most important road to succes and your only true competitor is your teammate and no because there is a reason someone like Coulthard went to a redbull in progress and Hamilton to Mercedes.

Hamilton is dominating the past 5 seasons with a above 50% win ratio and a 90% wet race win ratio (the one he didn’t win was from pit lane to third). That is above what the car gives you.