2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Haven't seen it mentioned here, but this was the fastest Hungarian gp of all time. Some 20s faster than ever, even including the refueling era.

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Capharol
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:14 pm
Haven't seen it mentioned here, but this was the fastest Hungarian gp of all time. Some 20s faster than ever, even including the refueling era.
Not really surprised with the laptimes VER & Ham were pounding in
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:16 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:14 pm
Haven't seen it mentioned here, but this was the fastest Hungarian gp of all time. Some 20s faster than ever, even including the refueling era.
Not really surprised with the laptimes VER & Ham were pounding in
I don't remember when we had a race where the 3rd place driver was a minute away
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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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bauc wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:25 pm
Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:16 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:14 pm
Haven't seen it mentioned here, but this was the fastest Hungarian gp of all time. Some 20s faster than ever, even including the refueling era.
Not really surprised with the laptimes VER & Ham were pounding in
I don't remember when we had a race where the 3rd place driver was a minute away
Spain 2017 definitely :) 3rd place +75s

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Capharol
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:28 pm
bauc wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:25 pm
Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:16 pm


Not really surprised with the laptimes VER & Ham were pounding in
I don't remember when we had a race where the 3rd place driver was a minute away
Spain 2017 definitely :) 3rd place +75s
correct and who was 3rd? Ricciardo, the rest was lapped
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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bauc wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:25 pm
Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:16 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:14 pm
Haven't seen it mentioned here, but this was the fastest Hungarian gp of all time. Some 20s faster than ever, even including the refueling era.
Not really surprised with the laptimes VER & Ham were pounding in
I don't remember when we had a race where the 3rd place driver was a minute away
2008 British GP - second place was 68.5s behind. Everyone up to and including fourth was lapped. Less than typical conditions though.
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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erudite450 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:20 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 pm
One more maybe, if RB went for M instead of Mercedes, maybe Lewis would hit the cliff (his H tires were surely damaged from pushing hard and mistakes he done).
When did he make a mistake?
T4, left the track.
also he was sliding in T2, pushing hard.

Gatecrasher
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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1968 German GP was only a 4 mins gap from 1st to 2nd..... Jackie + Rain + Fog :)

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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:18 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 pm
Capharol wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:33 am

again No... Max couldn't win this race (only if HAM his car would brake down), but okay then listen at least to what real experts have to say.... and they say the same as i do ... but hey you seems to know it better :roll: , maybe Red Bull is searching for a better strategist after Hungary GP #-o
Only way was to pit in the same lap as Lewis did, and hope Lewis wouldn't stay out. Basically impossible.
People praise Mercedes move as stroke of genius, while it's a textbook move done many times before.

This all was possible by pace advantage Mercedes had, which was obviously more than 1.5/10s! And in the end it actually didn't work until Max hit a cliff.

Maybe if they prolonged 1st stint by lap or 2(while risking undercut!) or if max was easier on his hard tires after the pit stop(risking over cut!) maybe he could avoid the cliff.

One more maybe, if RB went for M instead of Mercedes, maybe Lewis would hit the cliff (his H tires were surely damaged from pushing hard and mistakes he done).
As I and others have said, this was only possible because of the positions of the other cars. Second in their team and Ferrari.
We would have expected at least 2 cars to have been in that gap had all things been equal. Mercedes could have called their own car but had Max team mate of a Ferrari or two been there it wound not even have been considered.
I agree 100%.
That's why you need a good 2nd driver...

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:02 pm
erudite450 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:20 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 pm
One more maybe, if RB went for M instead of Mercedes, maybe Lewis would hit the cliff (his H tires were surely damaged from pushing hard and mistakes he done).
When did he make a mistake?
T4, left the track.
also he was sliding in T2, pushing hard.
lol, tires don't suddenly get damaged because you go off track, nor from pushing for a few laps. He was just faster so being faster on the tires doesn't automatically mean you've hurt them.

His times when he closed on in Max were only 79.3/79.6 and then 80.2 when he caught Max. Max did most of the rest of that stint in 79.5-80.5 range. The reason Hamilton caught so fast was Max was absolutely creeping along in the high 81's, low 82's while Ham was putting in laps at the end of his first stint, he was just making sure he was in the window so Ham came out behind, not wanting to take extra life out of them. For whatever reason Max/RBR were exceptionally slow to react to the sector times Hamilton was doing and instead of reacting and upping pace to low 80's after 1-2 fast sectors for Hamilton it took them the best part of 3 laps.

Hamilton also after going off only backed off for a couple laps and dropped to ~2 seconds behind to allow some engine/brake cooling and after that immediately caught that time up and got back within DRS and went at him for a decent while before then pitting onto the mediums.

If his tires were damaged he'd be slower than verstappen but he showed zero issues with the tires and was still obviously faster.


People saying it was all the team and strategy though are crazy. Ham was told to go slow and ease back to Verstappen later in the stint, if he'd allowed Max to keep those ridiculously slow times and protect the tires longer they'd have gone to the end. It was because Hamilton decided to absolutely demolish those few laps and put Max under pressure that got max out of the 82's and into the low 80s immediately and force him onto a pace that would make the tires not last to the end.

It was only because of Hamilton's insane pace and heavy pressure trying to pass Max that the chance to pit and catch by the end even opened up. Max with 15-20 really easy laps on those hards, then Ham catching after 20 laps pitting and then pushing would have meant Max had 20-25 less fast laps on those tires.

Ham extending the first stint but applying pressure by saving tires for 10 laps then pushing hard at him, then destroying him early in the second stint and forcing the pace is what made the second stop strategy possible and then his pace in that third stint is what made the race.

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Sierra117
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Bill_Kar wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:42 am
sprint car76 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:12 pm
Got a question for you all. How many of you thought, at the moment Hamilton went into the pits for his last stop, that he had a hope of catching verstap? I'm a hamilton fan and i thought "You just screwed up again" Still thinking about germany i thought "Here we go again" The only chance i thought he had was because he had pushed verstap so hard in the middle stint. But honestly after the first few laps after his stop when he was only gaining tenths of a second i thought it was over. So be honest now.
My father literally stopped watching after gap was stuck at 15.5 for a couple of laps or more.

He never thought that this would work, I didn't as well TBH, but I'm not that great as other members here who knew right away :D
TBH I think I was one of the few who wanted them to pit. In the race chat I said that maybe Merc can pull an RB by bolting on fast tyres at the end. When they did pit (my stream died just before, so I wasn't up to date), I was glad that they did but waited to see how his times would go. That + Max complaining his tyres were gone was enough to seal it barring any reliability issue.

Also heil sleepyfk8r who said in the beginning that Merc would win and went bonkers after the pitstop haha that was a fun chat.
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Scorpaguy
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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I still think RB messed up by not pitting Max the lap after Ham. Yes Ham would have been in front, but Max would have been right on the gearbox of the merc for 20 laps. The RB suffers less from turbulence, would have had DRS advantage, and Max is an overtaker.

Given such a scenario, my money would be on Max.

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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Scorpaguy wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:00 pm
I still think RB messed up by not pitting Max the lap after Ham. Yes Ham would have been in front, but Max would have been right on the gearbox of the merc for 20 laps. The RB suffers less from turbulence, would have had DRS advantage, and Max is an overtaker.

Given such a scenario, my money would be on Max.
That wouldn't have worked either....according to Max the Merc had much more pace.
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Bill_Kar
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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Sierra117 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:31 pm
Bill_Kar wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:42 am
sprint car76 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:12 pm
Got a question for you all. How many of you thought, at the moment Hamilton went into the pits for his last stop, that he had a hope of catching verstap? I'm a hamilton fan and i thought "You just screwed up again" Still thinking about germany i thought "Here we go again" The only chance i thought he had was because he had pushed verstap so hard in the middle stint. But honestly after the first few laps after his stop when he was only gaining tenths of a second i thought it was over. So be honest now.
My father literally stopped watching after gap was stuck at 15.5 for a couple of laps or more.

He never thought that this would work, I didn't as well TBH, but I'm not that great as other members here who knew right away :D
TBH I think I was one of the few who wanted them to pit. In the race chat I said that maybe Merc can pull an RB by bolting on fast tyres at the end. When they did pit (my stream died just before, so I wasn't up to date), I was glad that they did but waited to see how his times would go. That + Max complaining his tyres were gone was enough to seal it barring any reliability issue.

Also heil sleepyfk8r who said in the beginning that Merc would win and went bonkers after the pitstop haha that was a fun chat.
I thought that pitting was the way to go too, because after the failed attempt to overtake, I was afraid this was gonna be another race where the fastest man is just stuck behind the slower one. It's Hungary, come on. And it is Max in front. Without a tyre advantage there was absolutely no way to sneak ahead.

But I thought so only because you might get a chance trying something different. I believed Hamilton's best chance was a SC when the gap fell under 13 seconds (which was the pit window for a SC/VSC situation if I'm not mistaken).

Now don't get me wrong, I honestly believe that some people predicted the result, kudos to them, don't wanna take anything away. But it wasn't THAT obvious at the moment. (I mean of course before Max starting his 1.20s laps/ complaining about the tyres)

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Phil
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Re: 2019 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, August 2-4

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sAx wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:19 pm
Scorpaguy wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:00 pm
I still think RB messed up by not pitting Max the lap after Ham. Yes Ham would have been in front, but Max would have been right on the gearbox of the merc for 20 laps. The RB suffers less from turbulence, would have had DRS advantage, and Max is an overtaker.

Given such a scenario, my money would be on Max.
That wouldn't have worked either....according to Max the Merc had much more pace.
I agree. At no point in the entire GP did Max/Redbull look like the faster package. Ergo, the logical conclusion is, he wasnt.

Also, doing practically the same stint on the softs would have been difficult and i doubt RedBull felt they’d have the delta to attempt an ovetake against Lewis in the W10.

It was a much safer bet to hold on to track position and the tracks characteristic (being Monaco 2) to retain the lead. That was under the assumption that the tires would make it. They didnt. It’s that simple.

Closing in on that 20s was a tall order to the point even Lewis doubted it...
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