2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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aleks_ader wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:54 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:42 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:10 pm
The mclarens gearing was too short in that video.
I still dont get why there is ban on gear ratio changes race by race!
what is the logic behind it?
Cost
how much does it cost to reset the gears? is it really that much?

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:07 am
aleks_ader wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:54 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:42 pm


I still dont get why there is ban on gear ratio changes race by race!
what is the logic behind it?
Cost
how much does it cost to reset the gears? is it really that much?
Even more considering the extra RPMs the engine may pick up due to sub optimal gearing, and the reliability engineering cost for engine wear.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Zynerji wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:22 am
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:07 am
aleks_ader wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:54 pm


Cost
how much does it cost to reset the gears? is it really that much?
Even more considering the extra RPMs the engine may pick up due to sub optimal gearing, and the reliability engineering cost for engine wear.
With fixed gear ratios you can really seal the box for six races. Before this rule, they were rebuild within certain limits to change gears and dogs.

And if you don’t have your gears right after five years of these PU’s and box, you did something wrong somewhere...

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:57 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:22 am
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:07 am

how much does it cost to reset the gears? is it really that much?
Even more considering the extra RPMs the engine may pick up due to sub optimal gearing, and the reliability engineering cost for engine wear.
And if you don’t have your gears right after five years of these PU’s and box, you did something wrong somewhere...
Even after 5 years, wouldn't there be differences in the optimal solution due to track variance?

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Zynerji wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:02 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:57 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:22 am


Even more considering the extra RPMs the engine may pick up due to sub optimal gearing, and the reliability engineering cost for engine wear.
And if you don’t have your gears right after five years of these PU’s and box, you did something wrong somewhere...
Even after 5 years, wouldn't there be differences in the optimal solution due to track variance?
That's why they have eight gears and a huge power band. If they want to take risks and be marginal at the top end, that's their risk and mistake.

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Jolle wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:10 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:02 pm
Jolle wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:57 pm

And if you don’t have your gears right after five years of these PU’s and box, you did something wrong somewhere...
Even after 5 years, wouldn't there be differences in the optimal solution due to track variance?
That's why they have eight gears and a huge power band. If they want to take risks and be marginal at the top end, that's their risk and mistake.
That was exactly my point, thank you for making it as well.

To minimize the risks that you are speaking of, the money saved from the transmission regulations is put directly into managing the risk of only having a preset 8 gears for the season through wear resistance and control algorithms.

Modes and method mapping can eat a budget very quickly. Much more than making 21 gears, and letting the teams pick any 7 per weekend.

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Another thing we should remember that Ferrari Boss indirectly admitted on the radio after the race: leclerc was responsible for some of the qualifying circus. this is the proof he intentionally blocked vettel and also the field.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:54 pm
Another thing we should remember that Ferrari Boss indirectly admitted on the radio after the race: leclerc was responsible for some of the qualifying circus. this is the proof he intentionally blocked vettel and also the field.
I'm not sure you can say he blocked him. They left the pit lane 5th and 7th in the queue. By the exit of Turn 2 both had passed Bottas and Vettel passed Leclerc. Now no driver wanted to be at the front of the queue, being at the front means your lap is gone. The only benefit of being at the front of the queue is if you haven't set a time and you need to get a lap in, but you would still want a tow to make your lap faster. By the time they all left the Lesmos they were 2nd and 3rd in the queue with Leclerc behind, at that point they were running very fast to get to the line, Sainz had gone for it, Leclerc followed Vettel through Ascari, then passed him before Parabolica.

I'm not sure where you get intentionally blocked from ? For Vettel to get his lap in, It would have needed Leclerc to go to the front, and waste his lap. It was all caused by the whole group, you can't blame Charles for wrecking Sebs lap.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:49 am
foxmulder_ms wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:54 pm
Another thing we should remember that Ferrari Boss indirectly admitted on the radio after the race: leclerc was responsible for some of the qualifying circus. this is the proof he intentionally blocked vettel and also the field.
I'm not sure you can say he blocked him. They left the pit lane 5th and 7th in the queue. By the exit of Turn 2 both had passed Bottas and Vettel passed Leclerc. Now no driver wanted to be at the front of the queue, being at the front means your lap is gone. The only benefit of being at the front of the queue is if you haven't set a time and you need to get a lap in, but you would still want a tow to make your lap faster. By the time they all left the Lesmos they were 2nd and 3rd in the queue with Leclerc behind, at that point they were running very fast to get to the line, Sainz had gone for it, Leclerc followed Vettel through Ascari, then passed him before Parabolica.

I'm not sure where you get intentionally blocked from ? For Vettel to get his lap in, It would have needed Leclerc to go to the front, and waste his lap. It was all caused by the whole group, you can't blame Charles for wrecking Sebs lap.
Maybe it wasn't clear, let me rephrase: intentionally went slow and did not give a tow.

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Like they agreed upon up front and which Vettel did do for him in stint 1.

This is exactly the reason why others teams do this by weekend and not per stint in Q3. It gives an opportunity for one team member to play the game with the other. Charles knew the importance. He is now cemented in the team whilst Vettel...
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:13 pm

Maybe it wasn't clear, let me rephrase: intentionally went slow and did not give a tow.
Yeah I see what your saying, but I don't think it was Charles fault Vettel didn't get a lap. Seb just got unlucky that all the drivers didn't want to lead the group. Unlucky circumstances is what it was, no one played a dirty game on anyone in particular.
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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When Seb was in front, he also stayed behind Saintz, because the wanted his tow. What was expected of Charles when he overtook Sebastian? Sacrifice his lap and overtake Saintz to go in without a tow himself?

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:39 pm
When Seb was in front, he also stayed behind Saintz, because the wanted his tow. What was expected of Charles when he overtook Sebastian? Sacrifice his lap and overtake Saintz to go in without a tow himself?
That's exactly what he was supposed to do when it was clear there was no more time. Vettel did it first time round, then it was leclerc's turn. It doesn't really matter that sainz was the guy behind vettel in the end in the first run. Leclerc got a pretty good tow off of sainz so vettel did his part and leclerc didn't. Simple.

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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:46 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:39 pm
When Seb was in front, he also stayed behind Saintz, because the wanted his tow. What was expected of Charles when he overtook Sebastian? Sacrifice his lap and overtake Saintz to go in without a tow himself?
That's exactly what he was supposed to do when it was clear there was no more time. Vettel did it first time round, then it was leclerc's turn. It doesn't really matter that sainz was the guy behind vettel in the end in the first run. Leclerc got a pretty good tow off of sainz so vettel did his part and leclerc didn't. Simple.
That is pointless, Leclerc still needed to defend his poletime against Hamilton. It that point assuming Hamilton would be to late, is stupid.

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:56 pm
Juzh wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:46 pm
NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:39 pm
When Seb was in front, he also stayed behind Saintz, because the wanted his tow. What was expected of Charles when he overtook Sebastian? Sacrifice his lap and overtake Saintz to go in without a tow himself?
That's exactly what he was supposed to do when it was clear there was no more time. Vettel did it first time round, then it was leclerc's turn. It doesn't really matter that sainz was the guy behind vettel in the end in the first run. Leclerc got a pretty good tow off of sainz so vettel did his part and leclerc didn't. Simple.
That is pointless, Leclerc still needed to defend his poletime against Hamilton. It that point assuming Hamilton would be to late, is stupid.
:lol: no it's not pointless. What if situation was reversed and vettel would get the tow first time out and narrowly took pole, you think leclerc would be happy to have been left out to dry second time round?