2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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What was the Vettel-out/LeClerc-in delta?

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Zynerji wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:28 pm
What was the Vettel-out/LeClerc-in delta?
Not sure if you mean that but Vettel gained 3.9s through the undercut according to Binotto.

Edax
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:25 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:55 pm
Did Charles immediately pit the next time by the pit entrance. Or did he go by on Sebs outlap? I thought there was a full lap between.

And inlaps being that close proves they did tell Charles that Seb had pitted, or he would just kept his pace.
He directly pitted the next lap. And I just checked that his inlap was even 1.5 tenths faster than Vettel's.

I don't know, if this proves that they told Leclerc Seb had pitted, though. Because I don't know, if Vettel's inlap was particularly fast as he was ordered to pit just at the last turn before pit entry.
Are you sure? Racefans shows just the opposite. I also find it hard to believe if you look how hamilton was gaining on Leclerc in that lap.

But if your number is true then Vettel really drove a good outlap even accounting for the tire difference.

LM10
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Edax wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:34 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:25 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:55 pm
Did Charles immediately pit the next time by the pit entrance. Or did he go by on Sebs outlap? I thought there was a full lap between.

And inlaps being that close proves they did tell Charles that Seb had pitted, or he would just kept his pace.
He directly pitted the next lap. And I just checked that his inlap was even 1.5 tenths faster than Vettel's.

I don't know, if this proves that they told Leclerc Seb had pitted, though. Because I don't know, if Vettel's inlap was particularly fast as he was ordered to pit just at the last turn before pit entry.
Are you sure? Racefans shows just the opposite. I also find it hard to believe if you look how hamilton was gaining on Leclerc in that lap.

But if your number is true then Vettel really drove a good outlap even accounting for the tire difference.
I need to correct myself: Leclerc's inlap was not 1.5 tenths faster, but inlap and lost time in the pits combined, he was 1.5 tenths faster. Sorry for that.
What I did was to calculate it from numbers on the official FIA homepage.

Vettel's total time lost in the pits: 29.384 sec
Leclerc's total time lost in the pits: 29.168 sec
Leclerc gained 0.216 sec there.

Vettel's inlap: 1:56.992
Leclerc's inlap: 1:57.053
Vettel gained 0.061 there.

0.216 - 0.061 is how I eventually came to the 1.5 tenths I was talking about.

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:33 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:28 pm
What was the Vettel-out/LeClerc-in delta?
Not sure if you mean that but Vettel gained 3.9s through the undercut according to Binotto.
That's what I was after. Thanks.

Edax
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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LM10 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:43 pm
Edax wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:34 pm
LM10 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:25 pm


He directly pitted the next lap. And I just checked that his inlap was even 1.5 tenths faster than Vettel's.

I don't know, if this proves that they told Leclerc Seb had pitted, though. Because I don't know, if Vettel's inlap was particularly fast as he was ordered to pit just at the last turn before pit entry.
Are you sure? Racefans shows just the opposite. I also find it hard to believe if you look how hamilton was gaining on Leclerc in that lap.

But if your number is true then Vettel really drove a good outlap even accounting for the tire difference.
I need to correct myself: Leclerc's inlap was not 1.5 tenths faster, but inlap and lost time in the pits combined, he was 1.5 tenths faster. Sorry for that.
What I did was to calculate it from numbers on the official FIA homepage.

Vettel's total time lost in the pits: 29.384 sec
Leclerc's total time lost in the pits: 29.168 sec
Leclerc gained 0.216 sec there.

Vettel's inlap: 1:56.992
Leclerc's inlap: 1:57.053
Vettel gained 0.061 there.

0.216 - 0.061 is how I eventually came to the 1.5 tenths I was talking about.
Thanks, guess this is more accurate. Interesting that Leclerc accelerates in lap 15 16 and 17 and the in lap 18 and 19 his pace falls apart, rising from 1:47.8 to 1:49.6. Perhaps he took his tires over the cliff.

Also when they took the decision to take vettel in Leclerc still had good pace and they probably expected Leclerc to have a margin over Vettel after his pitstop.

basti313
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Hammerfist wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:04 pm
matt_b wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:06 pm
Zarathustra wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:35 pm

Because ‘normally’ you get stuck in traffic, it’s also the reason for Hamilton to no avail trying to pull a gap after Leclerc pitted.
In the race there was a perfect 13 second gap between Hulk and Stroll, Seb pitted on Lap 19 and came out 11 seconds behind Stroll which was perfect for laps 7-8 super fast laps before he caught Stroll. That gap was actually available for Lewis and Charles the lap before (Lap 18) as they were around two seconds ahead of Seb at that stage. That's is the part I don't get, Mercedes had two bites at the cherry (Lap 18 and Lap 19) and didn't do anything.
Yeah this is what I don't get. How long was that gap between Hulk and Stroll available? It seemed that Ferrari acted like it just became available when they decided to pit Seb at the last second. Did someone just pit in front of Hulkenberg and created that gap? If not it is really a big mistake for Mercedes not to have seen that gap.
In lap 18 Hulk missed an attempt on Gro which cost both a lot of time. This time loss was known after S2 and so there was not really time to react. If the attempt from Hulk would have been successful he would have been very close to Hamilton in case of a Ham stop as Hulk was the fastest car on track before catching Gro.

I think a stop in lap 18 was in two fashions dangerous: There was a big danger of ending behind Hulk and they were marginal of tire life with a Ferrari behind that is faster on the straights.

A stop in lap 19 would have won the race for Hamilton, but I guess there they were still watching the battle between Hulk and Gro, which lost both again a second. From the Vet call we know that they called him a corner before the pits...which is exactly when the S2 time for Hulk was visible. So I expect the same for Ferrari, they did not perfectly know what happens with Hulk, they did not know how fast he can go after passing Gro and they did not perfectly know the delta time they need. So they wanted to see how fast Hulk is in free air before making an decision.

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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In fact, VER got caught behind the Hulk (VET did not) after the pistop. He did pass him relatively quickly (not shown on TV) which was a major feat as Hulk was certainly not slow at that time. Unfortunately that cost Max P2 as he would have otherwise been on the tail Of VET and thus likely in front of LEC (just barely) as it turned out.

But maybe it was good for Max (and Lec) otherwise both would have been fighting for laps and both would have ran out of tires by race end (enabling the Hambotalb train passed).
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

mzso
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Edax wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:56 pm
Thanks, guess this is more accurate. Interesting that Leclerc accelerates in lap 15 16 and 17 and the in lap 18 and 19 his pace falls apart, rising from 1:47.8 to 1:49.6. Perhaps he took his tires over the cliff.
It's very simple. They didn't tell him to push so he didn't. They wanted Vettel to win.
They don't care about talent or performance, only politics.

CriXus
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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mzso wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:07 pm
It's very simple. They didn't tell him to push so he didn't. They wanted Vettel to win.
They don't care about talent or performance, only politics.
Nice tin foil hat!!! :lol:
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” - George Bernard Shaw

aral
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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What has not been stated (does anyone know) is that Vettels out lap was apparently a stormer.....and that was according to Rosberg, and that is where Vettel gained practically all of his time.

ferkan
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Not sure about that. Vettel and Bottas where only 2 top team drivers to do outlaps without coming behind someone (Max behind Hulk, Leclerc behind Vettel). Bottas pitted 2 laps later, so although faster, fuel corrected probably ~0.1s

Vettel's outlap was - 1:45.453
Bottas outlap was - 1:45.290

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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CriXus wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:25 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:07 pm
It's very simple. They didn't tell him to push so he didn't. They wanted Vettel to win.
They don't care about talent or performance, only politics.
Nice tin foil hat!!! :lol:
So much venom and hate...🙄

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MtthsMlw
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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ferkan wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:19 pm
Not sure about that. Vettel and Bottas where only 2 top team drivers to do outlaps without coming behind someone (Max behind Hulk, Leclerc behind Vettel). Bottas pitted 2 laps later, so although faster, fuel corrected probably ~0.1s

Vettel's outlap was - 1:45.453
Bottas outlap was - 1:45.290
What is the outlap in this case?
As the driver is coming out of the pits his S1 time is slower, one has to compare S2 and S3 of that lap. At least in Vettel's case. I just remember that Vettel's first full lap was a ~1:45.5

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Juzh
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Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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I just wanted to point out how much BS are new analysis type videos that f1 puts out for pole laps since monza onwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71SOTTBUKh4


I knew already in monza they are completely wrong, but this time it's much easier to prove since we have a clear sight on the in-car speedometer.
Check and compare speedos on either telemetry or the steering wheel with the supposed speed presented by the analysis clip

first measure point: 258 kmh - actual speed 223 (per in-car speedometer)
Image

second measure point: 209 kmh - actual speed 225 kmh (per in-car speedometer, telemetry overlay is off by a bit here because interpolation has not caught up yet)
Image

What are they trying to achieve by posting clips like there which are so easily proven wrong is anyone's guess. Maybe they're just trying to play the narrative and ponder to average casual pleb in youtube comments or something, I dunno.