2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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tomazy
tomazy
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:01 pm

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Just saw the Grosjean Russell incident and I think that it is all on Grosjean this one, he had more than enough room to avoid the crash.
stewards wrote:As the cars exited Turn 8, the Stewards determined that both cars held their line, but
that those lines converged and with both drivers racing hard, the collision resulted. The
Stewards determined that both drivers contributed to the incident, and that both drivers
could have mitigated the incident.
Both drivers are on the limit of traction, to avoid collision one has to turn more and one has to turn less, witch is esier done in this situation?

Image
Picture of the situation one frame before contact.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Agreed. 100% Grosjean at fault. He was trying to go round the outside of a corner that has a wall as the track edge. It was always going to end in tears. He got away with it and his opponent ended up in the wall.

It wasn't a racing incident, it was pure ham-fisted idiocy from Grosjean.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Kvyat taking out Kimi was likewise ham-fisted idiocy. He dive bombed Kimi from several car lengths behind. In Kimi's onboard, you can see him look left before turning in. Presumably he either saw in the mirrors that Kvyat was well behind him, or even couldn't see him as he was so far back. Kvyat came steaming and probably would have had to use the escape route had Kimi not acted as a crash barrier.

As with Grosjean/Russel, the guilty party didn't get taken out.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
63
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:48 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Grosjean frontwing was next to Russel’s frontwing. He knew he was there, he shouldn’t have squeezed Grosjean. Still stupid overtake by Grosjean. 50/50

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yelistener
15
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:55 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Juzh wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:24 pm
I just wanted to point out how much BS are new analysis type videos that f1 puts out for pole laps since monza onwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71SOTTBUKh4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71SOTTBUKh4

I knew already in monza they are completely wrong, but this time it's much easier to prove since we have a clear sight on the in-car speedometer.
Check and compare speedos on either telemetry or the steering wheel with the supposed speed presented by the analysis clip

first measure point: 258 kmh - actual speed 223 (per in-car speedometer)
https://i.imgur.com/Opo6WZO.jpg

second measure point: 209 kmh - actual speed 225 kmh (per in-car speedometer, telemetry overlay is off by a bit here because interpolation has not caught up yet)
https://i.imgur.com/TmptYb5.jpg

What are they trying to achieve by posting clips like there which are so easily proven wrong is anyone's guess. Maybe they're just trying to play the narrative and ponder to average casual pleb in youtube comments or something, I dunno.
On the bright side, at least FOM are now willing to share more stuff like that. I mean, the FOM people in charge doing this kind of vids probably don't dig the onboards as much as we nerds do, but at that's a start. I just they will get better and better from this.

sosic2121
sosic2121
18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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IMHO this race showed us that rearward visibility is inadequate. Especially this being a night race.
There were couple of accidents were car turned into other car. I believe these happened because front car was unaware of overtaking car.
For example Vettel accident and especially Kimi accident. I think both collided with TR drivers.

Mandrake
Mandrake
18
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:31 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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I have skimmed through the data feed from F1TV and it seems that this race, unlike a normal race there was no comparison for the effectiveness of an undercut.

Perez and Raikkonen did a stop before Ferrari, but they came out right behind Kubica, so no conclusion could be made on how much the undercut is worth.

On his inlap, Vettel made up .5 of a second compared to LEC (only looking at S1 and S2). LEC upped his pace the lap after to a similar pace as VETs inlap. But I believe his tires were done. Hamilton was able to go much faster once LEC pitted. HAM did a 1.47,0 whereas LECs lap before the pitstop would have been like a 1.49.0 max. That's 2 seconds difference. This might also be the reason for Merc to think they had a chance in combination with VET and LEC having to dart through traffic.

I believe VET has all the right for that victory, he did an amazing job using the hard new tires to the max and compensate for the .3 seconds lost in the pitstop and the gap he had to LEC. BOTs outlap was .8 of a second slower in S2 and S3. S1 matched. So VET really pushed it!

Bill_Kar
Bill_Kar
5
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:38 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:17 am
Kvyat taking out Kimi was likewise ham-fisted idiocy. He dive bombed Kimi from several car lengths behind. In Kimi's onboard, you can see him look left before turning in. Presumably he either saw in the mirrors that Kvyat was well behind him, or even couldn't see him as he was so far back. Kvyat came steaming and probably would have had to use the escape route had Kimi not acted as a crash barrier.

As with Grosjean/Russel, the guilty party didn't get taken out.
Was Kvyat penalised in any way? Can't remember, but I think he kept going while Kimi was out.

It should be a 3-places grid drop IMO, but those new rules of engagement are too lax for this.

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iotar__
7
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:31 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Bill_Kar wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:40 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:17 am
Kvyat taking out Kimi was likewise ham-fisted idiocy. He dive bombed Kimi from several car lengths behind. In Kimi's onboard, you can see him look left before turning in. Presumably he either saw in the mirrors that Kvyat was well behind him, or even couldn't see him as he was so far back. Kvyat came steaming and probably would have had to use the escape route had Kimi not acted as a crash barrier.

As with Grosjean/Russel, the guilty party didn't get taken out.
Was Kvyat penalised in any way? Can't remember, but I think he kept going while Kimi was out.

It should be a 3-places grid drop IMO, but those new rules of engagement are too lax for this.
- They are too lax if you don't like them, if you do they're fine e.i. Leclerc - Hamilton absurd flag warning,
- Or correct penalty for Vettel in Canada
- Or no penalty for Verstappen in Spa
- Or team fine for blatant unsafe release.
- Or Hamilton taking out Rosberg in Barcelona and getting no penalty whatsoever =P~ .

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iotar__
7
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:31 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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tomazy wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:39 pm
Just saw the Grosjean Russell incident and I think that it is all on Grosjean this one, he had more than enough room to avoid the crash.
stewards wrote:As the cars exited Turn 8, the Stewards determined that both cars held their line, but
that those lines converged and with both drivers racing hard, the collision resulted. The
Stewards determined that both drivers contributed to the incident, and that both drivers
could have mitigated the incident.
Both drivers are on the limit of traction, to avoid collision one has to turn more and one has to turn less, witch is esier done in this situation?

Image
Picture of the situation one frame before contact.
Worst image to judge the situation. I\m not saying it was easy, you need talent for that, but it all happened earlier, no intent/skills from Russell to take the corner wheel to wheel, meaning correction, something Grosjean did and he was quick enough/early enough through the corner to do it. If he hadn't gone as wide as possible they would have collided earlier.

Why bother when you can slide across and count on taking out the other driver (MV's (TM)). Then cry when it doesn't work out. Even with the monumental driver bias calling for a penalty is silly, ten examples in this very race.

Speaking of monumental - Brundle calling Sainz's line vs Hulkenberg - "normal" racing line. Judging from the cars in front he was the only driver taking "normal" line. Clarification: I'm claiming it was all Sainz's fault, don't care =P~ enough to think about it but that was not - "he took a normal line and that's all folks".

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
6
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:06 am
IMHO this race showed us that rearward visibility is inadequate. Especially this being a night race.
There were couple of accidents were car turned into other car. I believe these happened because front car was unaware of overtaking car.
For example Vettel accident and especially Kimi accident. I think both collided with TR drivers.
Both were divebombs where the driver behind should have been penalized. Had nothing to do with viability, only stupidity.

sosic2121
sosic2121
18
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:54 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:06 am
IMHO this race showed us that rearward visibility is inadequate. Especially this being a night race.
There were couple of accidents were car turned into other car. I believe these happened because front car was unaware of overtaking car.
For example Vettel accident and especially Kimi accident. I think both collided with TR drivers.
Both were divebombs where the driver behind should have been penalized. Had nothing to do with viability, only stupidity.
Maybe, maybe not, but that's irrelevant to my point.

IMO there is no way Kimi would turn in and crash with overtaking car. I believe he simply didn't know car was there.

I believe rear view mirrors should be standardised, both shape and position.
Now they are exploited as aero tools.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
6
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

Post

sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:08 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:54 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:06 am
IMHO this race showed us that rearward visibility is inadequate. Especially this being a night race.
There were couple of accidents were car turned into other car. I believe these happened because front car was unaware of overtaking car.
For example Vettel accident and especially Kimi accident. I think both collided with TR drivers.
Both were divebombs where the driver behind should have been penalized. Had nothing to do with viability, only stupidity.
Maybe, maybe not, but that's irrelevant to my point.

IMO there is no way Kimi would turn in and crash with overtaking car. I believe he simply didn't know car was there.

I believe rear view mirrors should be standardised, both shape and position.
Now they are exploited as aero tools.
Kimi didn't turn in and crash, he turned into the corner because Kvyat was way too far behind, but Kvyat divebombed him.

The mirrors have a standard size/area which is bigger in 2019 than in some previous years. Their position and area is regulated and the drivers are given a rear mirror vision test before the cars are allowed to race. The only thing exploited as aero tools are the mountings that hold the mirrors, which don't effect viability.

The blame is not on the mirrors, the blame is on the idiotic moves by habitual crash offenders like KVY, VET, GRO, etc.

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Juzh
459
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Anyone have a clue what kubica was up to this race? It's not like he was in any kind of traffic. Everyone was driving away from him and russel was catching him at enourmous pace in the same car. Did he have damage or just being plain slow? Because if there's nothing else to it other than just being slow, then imo he should be out of the car by sochi, not end of the year. Abysmal performance.

Image

marmer
marmer
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:48 am

Re: 2019 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 20-22 September

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Probably driving to a one stop where Russell would have pitted twice so he had no real reason to save tyres