2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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Wass85
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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Verstappen's rear tyre clearly hit Hamilton's back end first.

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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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carisi2k wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:58 pm
I still don't understand how Lewis didn't get a penalty for causing an avoidable accident with Max. It seems that Max's reputation went against him in this incident as Lewis was clearly out of control.
Reason why is here....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buv9xJ5 ... e=youtu.be Just review it.
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LM10
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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carisi2k wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:58 pm
I still don't understand how Lewis didn't get a penalty for causing an avoidable accident with Max. It seems that Max's reputation went against him in this incident as Lewis was clearly out of control.
Max hit Hamilton, Hamilton then lost control over his car and hit Max. If any, it should be Max being penalized.

ThumbsUp
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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LM10 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:21 pm
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:58 pm
I still don't understand how Lewis didn't get a penalty for causing an avoidable accident with Max. It seems that Max's reputation went against him in this incident as Lewis was clearly out of control.
Max hit Hamilton, Hamilton then lost control over his car and hit Max. If any, it should be Max being penalized.
I think no one deserved a penalty! You can also look at what caused Max to slide/oversteer into that corner and hit Lewis.

Lewis tried to overtake Max into the corner leaving Max no other option then to take the curb and by that he bumped back on track with the rear and oversteerd into Lewis.

So in fact Lewis initiated the contact.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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ThumbsUp wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:49 pm
LM10 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:21 pm
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:58 pm
I still don't understand how Lewis didn't get a penalty for causing an avoidable accident with Max. It seems that Max's reputation went against him in this incident as Lewis was clearly out of control.
Max hit Hamilton, Hamilton then lost control over his car and hit Max. If any, it should be Max being penalized.
I think no one deserved a penalty! You can also look at what caused Max to slide/oversteer into that corner and hit Lewis.

Lewis tried to overtake Max into the corner leaving Max no other option then to take the curb and by that he bumped back on track with the rear and oversteerd into Lewis.

So in fact Lewis initiated the contact.
Sorry if you are just joking and I've missed the sarcasm, but if you are serious, what the hell?! Max is at the apex and taking the perfect amount of curb.

Look where he is

Image

Now look at the pole lap from last year

Image

Exactly the same.

Max also has plenty of space to his left, Lewis is not squeezing him.

Max went in to the corner on a tighter line, heavy car, cool tyres, so mistakes can happen. And Max made a small but costly error. Nothing more to it.
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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I just watched Palmers analysis on Youtube. Very good points IMO, even regards the Hamilton / Max incident.
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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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Amazing ... according to some there was no contact between the two and Lewis just lost control, then once everyone had to admit there was contact some just go back a bit further and claim absolutely silly stuff like "Lewis [left] Max no other option then to take the curb [...] So in fact Lewis initiated the contact." when there was easily enough space to completely avoid the curb in the first place - had a similar discussion about whether a scene in football was a penalty, there was a foul against the defending player so no penalty, but people just kept claiming that things which chronologically happened earlier were already enough to give the penalty ... grasping at straws ...hard .... it's the same bloody nonsense in every sport i guess ...

Although it is a funny game ... let's blame Vettel, Hamilton had to back out and slow down because of him, so it was actually him who initiated the contact ... although ... Hamilton had a good start which forced Vettel to run him off track so it was him who initiated the contact ...

Oh and Palmer went from claiming that Hamilton lost it on his own (in his column) to "there was contact but he still totally lost it on his own" when the videos show he had to go that wide because of Max ... quality content from one of the worst ever F1 drivers we had the 'pleasure' of watching

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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RZS10 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:10 am
Amazing ... according to some there was no contact between the two and Lewis just lost control, then once everyone had to admit there was contact some just go back a bit further and claim absolutely silly stuff like "Lewis [left] Max no other option then to take the curb [...] So in fact Lewis initiated the contact." when there was easily enough space to completely avoid the curb in the first place - had a similar discussion about whether a scene in football was a penalty, there was a foul against the defending player so no penalty, but people just kept claiming that things which chronologically happened earlier were already enough to give the penalty ... grasping at straws ...hard .... it's the same bloody nonsense in every sport i guess ...

Although it is a funny game ... let's blame Vettel, Hamilton had to back out and slow down because of him, so it was actually him who initiated the contact ... although ... Hamilton had a good start which forced Vettel to run him off track so it was him who initiated the contact ...

Oh and Palmer went from claiming that Hamilton lost it on his own (in his column) to "there was contact but he still totally lost it on his own" when the videos show he had to go that wide because of Max ... quality content from one of the worst ever F1 drivers we had the 'pleasure' of watching
Some of it is anti-Hamilton bias, some of it is pro-Verstappen bias, but alot of it is because of shear ignorance of the "rules of racing" required by the drivers.

Even the drivers don't know them, it is quite evident when you hear nonsense from clowns like Massa and Vettel talking about "I owned the corner" just because their nose was an inch ahead on the inside line. The rules need to be clearly defined and harshly enforced so that these clowns understand that they must leave proper racing room when entering a corner with a car who has been side by side with them for half the length of the straight.

VER knew HAM was next to him, because VER knew HAM had to lift because of VET's idiotic move on the straight, which allowed VER to get next to HAM. VER went into T1 too hot, knowing HAM was next to him, causing a collision on the exit of t1, and forcing HAM mostly off the track (which is defined by the white line). It was 2 punishable offenses, but neither was enforced, it is deplorable.

The fans want side by side racing, but the stewards refuse to enforce the rules that would allow more of it.

carisi2k
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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If any of you know me and my comments you know I am pro Ricciardo. You know how much discussion I have on here on the Dan vs Max. Lewis was driving recklessly and he was even on the grass on the straight at the start. Max was ahead of Lewis in to the corner and Lewis went deep and got wide and oversteered off and was again out of control coming back on where Max was unfortunately on the outside. You can see he is trying to avoid lewis the whole time and lewis is just way out of control and forces Max off.

Both Mercedes were on the edge all weekend with Bottas having his accident and then Max gets a flat tyre after an amazing pass on Bottas who cut his rear tyre with his front wing. I personally think Max should have showed more patience and waited for the straight and the DRS which would have avoided this incident and not allowed Bottas to get back passed him. But that pass was still outstanding.

carisi2k
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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Hamilton should have conceded the spot at the start to Max especially considering the championship implications if there was more contact. I think this was a complete brain fade moment by Lewis and he was lucky to get away with it.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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You are definitely trolling now.
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NathanE
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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carisi2k wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:21 am
Lewis was driving recklessly and he was even on the grass on the straight at the start. Max was ahead of Lewis in to the corner and Lewis went deep and got wide and oversteered off and was again out of control coming back on where Max was unfortunately on the outside. You can see he is trying to avoid lewis the whole time and lewis is just way out of control and forces Max off.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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izzy
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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Has nobody else noticed Max STEERING out wider? I mean, taking lock off.

Seems clear enough to me, i haven't seen a single person mention it

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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izzy wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:48 am
Has nobody else noticed Max STEERING out wider? I mean, taking lock off.

Seems clear enough to me, i haven't seen a single person mention it
Yeah, he almosts goes from full right hand lock to straight, back to full right lock again,

It was down to the bump over the curb, and the Max controlling the rear of the car. Still Max's fault, but thats what started the whole chain of events.
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Re: 2019 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, 25-27 October

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Long time reader, first time poster, just wanted to counter some of the bs posted here.

Fact 1: Verstappen is a full carlength ahead at the braking zone.
Fact 2: At no point during the first corner does Hamilton come fully alongside Verstappen.
Fact 3: Verstappen is on the inside and always ahead.
Analysis: Verstappen has the inside line and can dictate the line, being the first corner of the race he should leave a carwidth space on the outside, which he does.

Fact 4: The initial contact is at the front between Hamiltons front wing and Verstappens left front tyre, causing Verstappens car to slide a bit and causing the 2nd contact at the rear.
Fact 5: Hamilton loses control, with benefit of the doubt this is because of the contact of the rear, although the loss of control is strangely a quarter count after the contact, instead of directly at the contact ( This could be due to break of contact or powerapplication at a wrong timing?)
Analysis: Verstappen has maybe a small oversteer of the curb, but corrects this well, he is actually trying to squeeze Hamilton to compromise his next left corner and gain advantage there. Hamilton doesnt want to be squeezed and keeps his line, the cars collide at the front. Hamilton is misdirecting at the Press conf. he clearly does not leave extra room for Verstappen. Verstappen being on the inside and ahead should not be at fault for choosing this line, since he leaves enough space on the outside.

Fact 6: Hamilton has lost control of his car, almost torpedoes Vettel and fully forces Verstappen of the track in the 2nd corner.
Analysis: this should have been investigated by the stewards, telemetry should point out the cause of Hamiltons loss of control.
However this is a racing incident due to 2 drivers claiming the same space at the first corner. If anyone is at fault it is Hamilton, being on the outside and behind and having a better view of Verstappens car then vice versa.