2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
zibby43
zibby43
315
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:21 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:09 am


Vowles did say they fixed it straight away when he returned to the garage after his first run in Q3.
"A mechanic spotted it immediately the second the car had come back in." - James Vowles.

Nowhere in the video (which I posted in this thread) did I hear Vowles say they fixed it.

And then you have the slightly conflicting testimony of when the team truly understood the extent of the problem:

"Hamilton hadn’t yet realised the crucial contributory cause of his sub-par couple of laps in Q3. “Sometimes you just don’t hit it. The start of my first lap was going really well but then I lost time on the exits of Turn 11, 12 and 13. On my second I abandoned after I lost a load of time at Turn Eight.” Subsequent investigation by the team centred around why his brake bias was constantly changing, as revealed on the telemetry. It was only then it was realised that he had inadvertently knocked off the bias switch cover, thereby allowing the bias to change whenever his hand made contact with it."

Regardless of whether they did fix it after the first run (who knows whether they had time to remove the wheel and perform a reliable fix in between Q3 runs), it's immaterial, as the first Q3 runs turned out to be the decisive ones, as the drivers that did improve on their second runs only did so marginally on the deteriorating track.
I think it's safe to say Volwes would have emphasised that if they didn't fix it in time.

It's not immaterial really as those drivers that made small improvements didn't have problems on their first run.

You would think Lewis would have made a substantial improvement after his problem was fixed.
:lol:

No offense, but this is the most ridiculous post I think I've ever seen on this board.

Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:27 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:21 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 am


"A mechanic spotted it immediately the second the car had come back in." - James Vowles.

Nowhere in the video (which I posted in this thread) did I hear Vowles say they fixed it.

And then you have the slightly conflicting testimony of when the team truly understood the extent of the problem:

"Hamilton hadn’t yet realised the crucial contributory cause of his sub-par couple of laps in Q3. “Sometimes you just don’t hit it. The start of my first lap was going really well but then I lost time on the exits of Turn 11, 12 and 13. On my second I abandoned after I lost a load of time at Turn Eight.” Subsequent investigation by the team centred around why his brake bias was constantly changing, as revealed on the telemetry. It was only then it was realised that he had inadvertently knocked off the bias switch cover, thereby allowing the bias to change whenever his hand made contact with it."

Regardless of whether they did fix it after the first run (who knows whether they had time to remove the wheel and perform a reliable fix in between Q3 runs), it's immaterial, as the first Q3 runs turned out to be the decisive ones, as the drivers that did improve on their second runs only did so marginally on the deteriorating track.
I think it's safe to say Volwes would have emphasised that if they didn't fix it in time.

It's not immaterial really as those drivers that made small improvements didn't have problems on their first run.

You would think Lewis would have made a substantial improvement after his problem was fixed.
:lol:

No offense, but this is the most ridiculous post I think I've ever seen on this board.
No offense but you're talking rubbish.

Just accept the fact that Lewis was poor in qualifying, it happens.

I doubt you fish for excuses when Lewis beats Bottas in qualifying.

kalinka
kalinka
9
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:21 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:09 am


Vowles did say they fixed it straight away when he returned to the garage after his first run in Q3.
"A mechanic spotted it immediately the second the car had come back in." - James Vowles.

Nowhere in the video (which I posted in this thread) did I hear Vowles say they fixed it.

And then you have the slightly conflicting testimony of when the team truly understood the extent of the problem:

"Hamilton hadn’t yet realised the crucial contributory cause of his sub-par couple of laps in Q3. “Sometimes you just don’t hit it. The start of my first lap was going really well but then I lost time on the exits of Turn 11, 12 and 13. On my second I abandoned after I lost a load of time at Turn Eight.” Subsequent investigation by the team centred around why his brake bias was constantly changing, as revealed on the telemetry. It was only then it was realised that he had inadvertently knocked off the bias switch cover, thereby allowing the bias to change whenever his hand made contact with it."

Regardless of whether they did fix it after the first run (who knows whether they had time to remove the wheel and perform a reliable fix in between Q3 runs), it's immaterial, as the first Q3 runs turned out to be the decisive ones, as the drivers that did improve on their second runs only did so marginally on the deteriorating track.
I think it's safe to say Volwes would have emphasised that if they didn't fix it in time.

It's not immaterial really as those drivers that made small improvements didn't have problems on their first run.

You would think Lewis would have made a substantial improvement after his problem was fixed.
This is strange, because Hamilton stated it was brake bias, and Vowles said clearly that is was engine-braking setting...so..what really happened ? Any onboards to prove one or another?
Edit : Looking at the steering pictures the EB switch cover (probably for Engine Braking ) would be more suspectible to fail..

bosyber
bosyber
44
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Engine breaking clearly does heavily affect the final brake balance as the amount of K largely sets the amount of rear breaking, so it might be the EB switch being inadvertently tweaked, that made his break balance constantly change, without any change Hamilton made to that work out the way he wanted/needed/expected.

Anyway, Bottas did a great lap when it counted, while Hamilton ended up not getting it right on Saturday. And on Sunday they and their team did a great job, another 1—2 and the WDC done as well. Hard to beat as a combination.

User avatar
GPR-A
94
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:34 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:23 am
Wass85 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:42 pm


Yes, it was only for his first run though. They rectified it for his second run but he couldn't improve.
No one improved on their second run did they?
Yes, I believe Max and Charles did.
Let's put some numbers to it.

Here are Q3 runs for the top 5.
Car Sequence - The car that started the final lap first.

Image

It's bit funny way of how the track was changing. Sector 1 was best at the end of the session; Sector 2 was best at the beginning of the session; Sector 3 was best, at the end of the session;

Lewis had better S1 compared to Bottas in both runs, but he lost almost 3 tenths in S3 alone in his first run which became the distinguishing factor, while also losing almost a tenth and half in S2 in the first run. He had a horrible S2 in his second run due to which he aborted the lap.

Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

GPR -A wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:35 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:34 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:23 am

No one improved on their second run did they?
Yes, I believe Max and Charles did.
Let's put some numbers to it.

Here are Q3 runs for the top 5.
Car Sequence - The car that started the final lap first.

https://i.imgur.com/A5S4kpk.png

It's bit funny way of how the track was changing. Sector 1 was best at the end of the session; Sector 2 was best at the beginning of the session; Sector 3 was best, at the end of the session;

Lewis had better S1 compared to Bottas in both runs, but he lost almost 3 tenths in S3 alone in his first run which became the distinguishing factor, while also losing almost a tenth and half in S2 in the first run. He had a horrible S2 in his second run due to which he aborted the lap.
Thanks, Lewis should have improved on the second run as his first run was troubled by car problems.

User avatar
GPR-A
94
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:51 am
GPR -A wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:35 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:34 am


Yes, I believe Max and Charles did.
Let's put some numbers to it.

Here are Q3 runs for the top 5.
Car Sequence - The car that started the final lap first.

https://i.imgur.com/A5S4kpk.png

It's bit funny way of how the track was changing. Sector 1 was best at the end of the session; Sector 2 was best at the beginning of the session; Sector 3 was best, at the end of the session;

Lewis had better S1 compared to Bottas in both runs, but he lost almost 3 tenths in S3 alone in his first run which became the distinguishing factor, while also losing almost a tenth and half in S2 in the first run. He had a horrible S2 in his second run due to which he aborted the lap.
Thanks, Lewis should have improved on the second run his first run was troubled by car problems.
He did! Data shows he did improve in S1, but in S2, the track had lost it's juice and he lost time and he didn't bother going for S3. He will be getting mini sector times on his dashboard and I guess he would have seen that he has lost big chunk even before completing S2.

Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

GPR -A wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:54 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:51 am
GPR -A wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:35 am
Let's put some numbers to it.

Here are Q3 runs for the top 5.
Car Sequence - The car that started the final lap first.

https://i.imgur.com/A5S4kpk.png

It's bit funny way of how the track was changing. Sector 1 was best at the end of the session; Sector 2 was best at the beginning of the session; Sector 3 was best, at the end of the session;

Lewis had better S1 compared to Bottas in both runs, but he lost almost 3 tenths in S3 alone in his first run which became the distinguishing factor, while also losing almost a tenth and half in S2 in the first run. He had a horrible S2 in his second run due to which he aborted the lap.
Thanks, Lewis should have improved on the second run his first run was troubled by car problems.
He did! Data shows he did improve in S1, but in S2, the track had lost it's juice and he lost time and he didn't bother going for S3. He will be getting mini sector times on his dashboard and I guess he would have seen that he has lost big chunk even before completing S2.
He did in sector 1 marginally and that's it, it was a Silverstone 2014 moment. If he'd had done a purple final sector who knows where he'd had finished.

Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:59 am
GPR -A wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:54 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:51 am


Thanks, Lewis should have improved on the second run his first run was troubled by car problems.
He did! Data shows he did improve in S1, but in S2, the track had lost it's juice and he lost time and he didn't bother going for S3. He will be getting mini sector times on his dashboard and I guess he would have seen that he has lost big chunk even before completing S2.
He did in sector 1 marginally and that's it, it was a Silverstone 2014 moment. If he'd had done a purple final sector who knows where he'd had finished.

Edit- Looking at his S2 he had no chance, Max and Charles matched their first S2 times in fact Max was slightly quicker, all in all it was a very poor qualifying for Lewis.

User avatar
Sieper
72
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

In fact, Max' car was set-up for a good sector 3. He even mentioned that in the post qualy. He should have had a better sector 3 even (in his second run, he did improve but he needed to improve even more but track conditions weren't moving into the right direction). I think Lewis also knew that (they all know everything about each other and about how the track is evolving) so if he knows enough to not even try that is valid.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:57 pm
In fact, Max' car was set-up for a good sector 3. He even mentioned that in the post qualy. He should have had a better sector 3 even (in his second run, he did improve but he needed to improve even more but track conditions weren't moving into the right direction). I think Lewis also knew that (they all know everything about each other and about how the track is evolving) so if he knows enough to not even try that is valid.
Lewis gave up because he had a terrible S2, that's probably about it really.

dans79
dans79
213
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:59 am
He did in sector 1 marginally and that's it, it was a Silverstone 2014 moment. If he'd had done a purple final sector who knows where he'd had finished.
This complete garbage, the situations are no where close to similar.

ubuysa
ubuysa
0
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:39 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

Even a driver with the skills and experience of Lewis is going to have a bad day at the office now and then. Nobody gets it right all the time and Lewis I'm sure would be the first to admit that. That's probably all it was.

Sent using Tapatalk


Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:22 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:59 am
He did in sector 1 marginally and that's it, it was a Silverstone 2014 moment. If he'd had done a purple final sector who knows where he'd had finished.
This complete garbage, the situations are no where close to similar.
I see how you failed to read the end of my post, Hamilton just had a poor last lap.

Wass85
Wass85
-3
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

Post

ubuysa wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:27 pm
Even a driver with the skills and experience of Lewis is going to have a bad day at the office now and then. Nobody gets it right all the time and Lewis I'm sure would be the first to admit that. That's probably all it was.

Sent using Tapatalk
I think that's about right, he had a poor session at the end of the day. Days like that happen in sport.