2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:03 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:57 pm
In fact, Max' car was set-up for a good sector 3. He even mentioned that in the post qualy. He should have had a better sector 3 even (in his second run, he did improve but he needed to improve even more but track conditions weren't moving into the right direction). I think Lewis also knew that (they all know everything about each other and about how the track is evolving) so if he knows enough to not even try that is valid.
Lewis gave up because he had a terrible S2, that's probably about it really.
Yes, ofcourse, and it is more then fine to let the lap slide for that reason alone imho (no need to bash anybody for "giving up") but beside that I think he also knew the parameters I just described.
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Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:49 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:03 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:57 pm
In fact, Max' car was set-up for a good sector 3. He even mentioned that in the post qualy. He should have had a better sector 3 even (in his second run, he did improve but he needed to improve even more but track conditions weren't moving into the right direction). I think Lewis also knew that (they all know everything about each other and about how the track is evolving) so if he knows enough to not even try that is valid.
Lewis gave up because he had a terrible S2, that's probably about it really.
Yes, ofcourse, and it is more then fine to let the lap slide for that reason alone imho (no need to bash anybody for "giving up") but beside that I think he also knew the parameters I just described.
I'm not "bashing" him I'm just stating the obvious, he gave up on his lap after a terrible S2.

My points still stand about his qualifying though.

1. He had a problem in his first Q3 run that left him trailing by nearly 3 tenths.

2. Verstappen and Leclerc both improved on their 2nd run.

3. Once his problem was fixed you would have expected a substantial improvement on his second run.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:54 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:49 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:03 pm


Lewis gave up because he had a terrible S2, that's probably about it really.
Yes, ofcourse, and it is more then fine to let the lap slide for that reason alone imho (no need to bash anybody for "giving up") but beside that I think he also knew the parameters I just described.
I'm not "bashing" him I'm just stating the obvious, he gave up on his lap after a terrible S2.

My points still stand about his qualifying though.

1. He had a problem in his first Q3 run that left him trailing by nearly 3 tenths.

2. Verstappen and Leclerc both improved on their 2nd run.

3. Once his problem was fixed you would have expected a substantial improvement on his second run if he did have hidden pace.

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Sieper
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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I am not saying you are bashing him, but some people here said that if you let a Q run slide for whatever reason that is stupid / a missed opportunity. I say I agree that that is not always the case and provide one further detail on why that f.e. could be. It wasn't meant to be hard to understand what I was saying but it apparently was.
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RZS10
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:46 am
[...]
For some reason, or just maybe in my mind, the overhead helo/crane shot showed alot more space(maybe a front tire's width). That I will absolutely concede. Strange, time to get the peepers checked. On the onboards I am unable to determine if Hulk was fully off track before or after Kimi touched the line.
[...]
I blame the FIA, who are too busy regulating helmets to establish, publish and enforce all complete list on racing rules which should cover F1 down thru the junior categories.
Nah man your eyes are fine i guess ... i wasn't quite sure whether there was any space as well but once you know it from the onboard it becomes obvious in the external view.

There's maybe 25-ish cm of track left when Hulk leaves the track with his right rear tyre, one tenth of a second later that space is gone.

I think it's one of those situations where Hulk would have to stay on track and force a wheel to wheel contact to have an excuse to leave the track - then just go for the overtake like he did ... similar to Lewis/Max at Monaco where Lewis did not turn in properly but just enough to touch with Max, he was then 100% within his right to go straight through the chicane...

And god yes, the rules are a mess.
The rules regarding leaving space used to be in the F1 sporting regulations, and they included the bit about the straight - they then moved stuff around and some was in the sporting regs and some of it in the appendix and now it's pretty much all in appendix L which covers the license, medical stuff etc but also "conduct" on track, "straight" has been scrapped from the wording though.

It's really annoying that you can't just open one document and find everything, instead you have to get the F1 sporting regulations, the FIA sporting code and in many cases at least one of the appendices which go all the way to appendix z. :wtf:

During the announcement of the 2021 rules they mentioned the reorganisation of articles for clarity and consistency within the sporting regulations so maybe they'll sort it out a bit.

sAx
sAx
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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epo wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:44 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:59 pm
izzy wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:52 pm

that's the teammate who just went pole,win? :lol:

and obviously it was his call how hard to chase Seb in front of him

and also obviously Lewis is part of that car being great. when he joined Mercedes the whole media circus moved down the pitlane with him and the whole team immediately knew that any car they came up with would be raced to the max. They could get the budget they wanted from the Board cos they knew it would pay off, and they could get any staff they wanted too. Lewis and the team is a virtuous circle, making each other greater
It's not that people like epo are reading these things first time or unaware of these realities. They need something to hang on to that makes their contrived opinions seems legitimate, because for whatever reason Lewis is not the preferred driver of their natural selection.
That is a lot of bs, I'm not saying he is a bad driver, he is compared to the rest and last year yes obviously the best driver. Only saying he never had any real competition from his teammate, yeah Rosberg and lost one but won more.
Just bored with those post making him bigger then he needs to be like where other are being downplayed when they win by the Hammie fans. Ah well of course this a UK forum so understandable, we have the same stupidity on the Dutch forums with Max.
How the obscuration and vignette increases throughout the years....Hunt, Piquet Snr, Alan Jones, Rosberg K, Mansell, Hill, Hakkinen, Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel....any real competition from teammates during WDC year(s)? That is a lot of bs!
Integrity, Trust, Respect.

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Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Hamilton has got as good a resume as any world champion if we're being honest. Who beats it, maybe Prost?

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:29 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:27 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:21 am


I think it's safe to say Volwes would have emphasised that if they didn't fix it in time.

It's not immaterial really as those drivers that made small improvements didn't have problems on their first run.

You would think Lewis would have made a substantial improvement after his problem was fixed.
:lol:

No offense, but this is the most ridiculous post I think I've ever seen on this board.
No offense but you're talking rubbish.

Just accept the fact that Lewis was poor in qualifying, it happens.

I doubt you fish for excuses when Lewis beats Bottas in qualifying.
I'm not talking rubbish. Do you have any background racing, at any level?

I'm going to guess no. Because if you did, you'd be concentrating on the fact that Lewis got within 3 tenths of pole on his first lap with a constantly changing rear brake bias and applauding that effort.

Next, please list every driver in the top 10 that improved on their second lap in Q3, and the amount they improved, and what impact it had on their final grid position.

Finally, I've actually been very complimentary of Bottas and think he's had his best season in F1. He's improved both his qualifying and tire management this year.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Bottas got a freebie race win becsuse of one little switch cover! Can you imagine? Lol

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 pm
Bottas got a freebie race win becsuse of one little switch cover! Can you imagine? Lol
My favorite part of the whole situation is, Hamilton never complained about the equipment one time the entire weekened. Took full responsibility for the performance himself.

His banker lap got trashed, and his second Q3 lap wasn't going to be good, but it was irrelevant, because no matter if it was a perfect lap, the track likely wasn't fast enough for him to move up 1 spot, let alone to pole.

Credit to Bottas for nailing his banker lap to beat the Ferraris and Red Bull, though.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:13 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:29 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:27 am


:lol:

No offense, but this is the most ridiculous post I think I've ever seen on this board.
No offense but you're talking rubbish.

Just accept the fact that Lewis was poor in qualifying, it happens.

I doubt you fish for excuses when Lewis beats Bottas in qualifying.
I'm not talking rubbish. Do you have any background racing, at any level?

I'm going to guess no. Because if you did, you'd be concentrating on the fact that Lewis got within 3 tenths of pole on his first lap with a constantly changing rear brake bias and applauding that effort.

Next, please list every driver in the top 10 that improved on their second lap in Q3, and the amount they improved, and what impact it had on their final grid position.

Finally, I've actually been very complimentary of Bottas and think he's had his best season in F1. He's improved both his qualifying and tire management this year.
What's that got to do with anything?

Like I said earlier if the rear brake bias was that big of a problem and it was rectified then he should have made a substantial improvement on his 2nd run. Other drivers improved and they had no such problem on their 1st run.

You still fail to grasp that other drivers like Max and Charles didn't have car troubles on their 1st run so it's a given they weren't going to make massive gains on their 2nd run.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 pm
Bottas got a freebie race win becsuse of one little switch cover! Can you imagine? Lol
My favorite part of the whole situation is, Hamilton never complained about the equipment one time the entire weekened. Took full responsibility for the performance himself.

His banker lap got trashed, and his second Q3 lap wasn't going to be good, but it was irrelevant, because no matter if it was a perfect lap, the track likely wasn't fast enough for him to move up 1 spot, let alone to pole.

Credit to Bottas for nailing his banker lap to beat the Ferraris and Red Bull, though.
Again Max and Charles improved on their banker laps so the track clearly wasn't really any slower.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:38 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 pm
Bottas got a freebie race win becsuse of one little switch cover! Can you imagine? Lol
My favorite part of the whole situation is, Hamilton never complained about the equipment one time the entire weekened. Took full responsibility for the performance himself.

His banker lap got trashed, and his second Q3 lap wasn't going to be good, but it was irrelevant, because no matter if it was a perfect lap, the track likely wasn't fast enough for him to move up 1 spot, let alone to pole.

Credit to Bottas for nailing his banker lap to beat the Ferraris and Red Bull, though.
Again Max and Charles improved on their banker laps so the track clearly wasn't really any slower.
:wtf: . #-o

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:44 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:38 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm


My favorite part of the whole situation is, Hamilton never complained about the equipment one time the entire weekened. Took full responsibility for the performance himself.

His banker lap got trashed, and his second Q3 lap wasn't going to be good, but it was irrelevant, because no matter if it was a perfect lap, the track likely wasn't fast enough for him to move up 1 spot, let alone to pole.

Credit to Bottas for nailing his banker lap to beat the Ferraris and Red Bull, though.
Again Max and Charles improved on their banker laps so the track clearly wasn't really any slower.
:wtf: . #-o
How simpler can it get, their 2nd lap was faster than their banker lap. 👍

dans79
dans79
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Location: USA

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:38 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 pm
Bottas got a freebie race win becsuse of one little switch cover! Can you imagine? Lol
My favorite part of the whole situation is, Hamilton never complained about the equipment one time the entire weekened. Took full responsibility for the performance himself.

His banker lap got trashed, and his second Q3 lap wasn't going to be good, but it was irrelevant, because no matter if it was a perfect lap, the track likely wasn't fast enough for him to move up 1 spot, let alone to pole.

Credit to Bottas for nailing his banker lap to beat the Ferraris and Red Bull, though.
Again Max and Charles improved on their banker laps so the track clearly wasn't really any slower.
so 10% of the drivers improved their times? that's hardly a good case that Lewis should have improved his time. Also you assume the issue with the broken component was easily fixable in 5 minutes. not to mention I'm sure if it was fixed, Lewis would be wondering how easy it would be to break again, and if he had to adjust his grip to mitigate the risk.
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