2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:53 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:38 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:25 pm


My favorite part of the whole situation is, Hamilton never complained about the equipment one time the entire weekened. Took full responsibility for the performance himself.

His banker lap got trashed, and his second Q3 lap wasn't going to be good, but it was irrelevant, because no matter if it was a perfect lap, the track likely wasn't fast enough for him to move up 1 spot, let alone to pole.

Credit to Bottas for nailing his banker lap to beat the Ferraris and Red Bull, though.
Again Max and Charles improved on their banker laps so the track clearly wasn't really any slower.
so 10% of the drivers improved their times? that's hardly a good case that Lewis should have improved his time. Also you assume the issue with the broken component was easily fixable in 5 minutes. not to mention I'm sure if it was fixed, Lewis would be wondering how easy it would be to break again, and if he had to adjust his grip to mitigate the risk.
Again you fail to grasp the idea that Lewis should have improved on the 2nd run because his brake bias problem was fixed by then. It's like a merry go round here, go and watch the debrief video.

dans79
dans79
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Location: USA

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:06 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:53 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:38 pm


Again Max and Charles improved on their banker laps so the track clearly wasn't really any slower.
so 10% of the drivers improved their times? that's hardly a good case that Lewis should have improved his time. Also you assume the issue with the broken component was easily fixable in 5 minutes. not to mention I'm sure if it was fixed, Lewis would be wondering how easy it would be to break again, and if he had to adjust his grip to mitigate the risk.
Again you fail to grasp the idea that Lewis should have improved on the 2nd run because his brake bias problem was fixed by then. It's like a merry go round here, go and watch the debrief video.
How is it that you can't possibly grasp that even if the team fixed it, it would still be on Lewis's mind that it might break again?

Not to mention, since his first lap wasn't very good, he didn't really have a good baseline as to how much harder he could possibly push.
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Noble29
Noble29
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Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:59 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Still banging the same drums...Still. Keep going lads, I'm sure one or two more posts will convince the other side to come round, especially with making the same points :wtf:

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:23 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:06 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:53 pm


so 10% of the drivers improved their times? that's hardly a good case that Lewis should have improved his time. Also you assume the issue with the broken component was easily fixable in 5 minutes. not to mention I'm sure if it was fixed, Lewis would be wondering how easy it would be to break again, and if he had to adjust his grip to mitigate the risk.
Again you fail to grasp the idea that Lewis should have improved on the 2nd run because his brake bias problem was fixed by then. It's like a merry go round here, go and watch the debrief video.
How is it that you can't possibly grasp that even if the team fixed it, it would still be on Lewis's mind that it might break again?

Not to mention, since his first lap wasn't very good, he didn't really have a good baseline as to how much harder he could possibly push.
Drivers are not programmed like that, all he would have been thinking about is getting pole position.

He was 3 tenths off, not that much at all really.

If I'm being honest I don't think it really affected him that much and he just wasn't quick enough on the day.

Let's see if he can grab pole in the remaining races.

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Noble29 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:46 pm
Still banging the same drums...Still. Keep going lads, I'm sure one or two more posts will convince the other side to come round, especially with making the same points :wtf:
Yes it is like flogging a dead horse now. He got beat in qualifying and that's all there is to it really. He had a great race and sealed the championship, I'm sure Lewis has moved on by now.

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:58 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:23 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:06 pm


Again you fail to grasp the idea that Lewis should have improved on the 2nd run because his brake bias problem was fixed by then. It's like a merry go round here, go and watch the debrief video.
How is it that you can't possibly grasp that even if the team fixed it, it would still be on Lewis's mind that it might break again?

Not to mention, since his first lap wasn't very good, he didn't really have a good baseline as to how much harder he could possibly push.
Drivers are not programmed like that, all he would have been thinking about is getting pole position.

Speaking of a baseline. He was 3 tenths off, not that much at all really. We see teammates pull those gaps when both cars are working fine.

If I'm being honest I don't think it really affected him that much and he just wasn't quick enough on the day.

Let's see if he can grab pole in the remaining races.

LM10
LM10
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Mercedes won the title. Hamilton won the title. Season is done.

There could not be more irrelevance in a topic like the one which has been talked about here day in day out.

sAx
sAx
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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LM10 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:18 pm
Mercedes won the title. Hamilton won the title. Season is done.

There could not be more irrelevance in a topic like the one which has been talked about here day in day out.
=D> They should all watch the F1 Weekend debrief with Rob Smedley and Ted Kravitz...is it him/is it the car rendered largely academic! #NowPlaying
Integrity, Trust, Respect.

Follow me: http://twitter.com/#!/sAx247

Hammerfist
Hammerfist
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:21 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 am
NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:09 am


Vowles did say they fixed it straight away when he returned to the garage after his first run in Q3.
"A mechanic spotted it immediately the second the car had come back in." - James Vowles.

Nowhere in the video (which I posted in this thread) did I hear Vowles say they fixed it.

And then you have the slightly conflicting testimony of when the team truly understood the extent of the problem:

"Hamilton hadn’t yet realised the crucial contributory cause of his sub-par couple of laps in Q3. “Sometimes you just don’t hit it. The start of my first lap was going really well but then I lost time on the exits of Turn 11, 12 and 13. On my second I abandoned after I lost a load of time at Turn Eight.” Subsequent investigation by the team centred around why his brake bias was constantly changing, as revealed on the telemetry. It was only then it was realised that he had inadvertently knocked off the bias switch cover, thereby allowing the bias to change whenever his hand made contact with it."

Regardless of whether they did fix it after the first run (who knows whether they had time to remove the wheel and perform a reliable fix in between Q3 runs), it's immaterial, as the first Q3 runs turned out to be the decisive ones, as the drivers that did improve on their second runs only did so marginally on the deteriorating track.
I think it's safe to say Volwes would have emphasised that if they didn't fix it in time.

It's not immaterial really as those drivers that made small improvements didn't have problems on their first run.

You would think Lewis would have made a substantial improvement after his problem was fixed.
I really don't believe that it was fixed for the second run. Lewis would have likely pointed it out on his post qualifying interviews. The safe bet is that he had to do the 2 runs with the broken switch. There is no evidence suggesting that it was fixed, so why assume that?

Edit: It does say in the quoted post above yours that:

""Hamilton hadn’t yet realised the crucial contributory cause of his sub-par couple of laps in Q3. “

So he hadn't realized the cause of his subpar "couple of laps", not just one lap. So that is confirmation that he did both laps with the problem. We can move on now hopefully.

Wass85
Wass85
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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Hammerfist wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:54 am
Wass85 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:21 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:15 am


"A mechanic spotted it immediately the second the car had come back in." - James Vowles.

Nowhere in the video (which I posted in this thread) did I hear Vowles say they fixed it.

And then you have the slightly conflicting testimony of when the team truly understood the extent of the problem:

"Hamilton hadn’t yet realised the crucial contributory cause of his sub-par couple of laps in Q3. “Sometimes you just don’t hit it. The start of my first lap was going really well but then I lost time on the exits of Turn 11, 12 and 13. On my second I abandoned after I lost a load of time at Turn Eight.” Subsequent investigation by the team centred around why his brake bias was constantly changing, as revealed on the telemetry. It was only then it was realised that he had inadvertently knocked off the bias switch cover, thereby allowing the bias to change whenever his hand made contact with it."

Regardless of whether they did fix it after the first run (who knows whether they had time to remove the wheel and perform a reliable fix in between Q3 runs), it's immaterial, as the first Q3 runs turned out to be the decisive ones, as the drivers that did improve on their second runs only did so marginally on the deteriorating track.
I think it's safe to say Volwes would have emphasised that if they didn't fix it in time.

It's not immaterial really as those drivers that made small improvements didn't have problems on their first run.

You would think Lewis would have made a substantial improvement after his problem was fixed.
I really don't believe that it was fixed for the second run. Lewis would have likely pointed it out on his post qualifying interviews. The safe bet is that he had to do the 2 runs with the broken switch. There is no evidence suggesting that it was fixed, so why assume that?

Edit: It does say in the quoted post above yours that:

""Hamilton hadn’t yet realised the crucial contributory cause of his sub-par couple of laps in Q3. “

So he hadn't realized the cause of his subpar "couple of laps", not just one lap. So that is confirmation that he did both laps with the problem. We can move on now hopefully.
Mercedes strategy chief James Vowles told the team's regular post race video debrief: "During the course of the lap, underneath his right hand, there's a little rotary and that rotary adjusts the engine braking.

"Normally it has a guard on it, and what happened is the guard had accidentally been knocked off. As he went through the lap, every time he turned the steering wheel, he accidentally changed the engine braking and that caused him to lose performance towards the end of the lap.

"The mechanics spotted it immediately the second the car had come back in but obviously that first run was compromised as the result."




While the problem was sorted for Hamilton's second run, the track conditions were not as good which meant he was unable to improve.

Vowles added: "Come the second run you would've seen everyone went slower, the track in fact had slowed down slightly, small wind change, small track temperature change and Lewis wasn't now able to compete at the front, ultimately sealing his place as fifth on the grid."

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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"It had nothing to do with the car, it was just me," reacts Hamilton after qualifying against Sky Sports. "I couldn't get the laps done today. The car was certainly good enough to end up in the front row, but I didn't do it today. It's my fault, but I'll do my best .
I'll try and rectify it tomorrow".

aral
aral
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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OMG ! What is it with you guys? You drag a thread down to a childish level with your rather puerile name calling.
Once again, have a look at the thread title and please try and keep your comments to the actual topic.

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RZS10
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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I'm struggling to understand which switch Hamilton turned by mistake.

That's the 2019 wheel (from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX58IkeSl4c)

Image

I thought it was the one marked in the picture in this post (BBAL)
viewtopic.php?p=872319#p872319

But looking at onboards this is a design used only by Bottas, Lewis supposedly uses this wheel:
Image

They are identical apart from having different colours which is probably driver preference.

However if you look at onboard from Lewis in the last few races he used a different wheel
Image

Different placement of buttons (N is moved for example) and different colours for the switches.

It's not the wheel shown on Mercedes' website where they explain how it works and what it does.
Image

The colour scheme is the same however.

That's the text on the site, i added what i assume the switches are on the wheel

"Our 2019 steering wheel has a total of 25 buttons and switches and, of course, the clutch and the shift paddles. Five of those buttons and switches change the brake settings of the car: the driver can shift the brake balance from the front to the rear or vice versa [BBAL], to optimise the brake balance for an individual corner, change the amount of engine braking [EB] or adjust the brake migration [BMIG], which is a dynamic change of the brake balance depending on how hard the driver brakes.

Another three switches control the differential - the amount of torque transfer between the rear wheels - for the entry [ENTRY], the apex [MID] and the exit of a corner [HI SPEED?]. The rest of the buttons and switches have a variety of different purposes, from adjusting the settings of the Power Unit to changing the data that is displayed on the screen, activating the radio or the pit lane speed limiter."

I don't see any cover or "guard" as they said in the video anywhere near the EB switch unless the entire brown-ish piece went off.

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Mattchu
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Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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From my understanding there is a slide in cover at the side of the rotary switches which stops the drivers from inadvertently turning the knob round with their thumb area. This was what slid out I think.

Image

This forum and images :?
Last edited by Mattchu on Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RZS10
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: 2019 United States Grand Prix - Austin, 1-3 November

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I instantly thought that it must have been that piece but in none of the pictures of the wheel was EB on the right hand side on that switch.
RZS10 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:19 pm
Probably this piece here, eh?

Image