2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:40 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:33 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:30 pm
In hindsight looking back Mercedes were foolish to keep Hamilton out at the end. We saw how easy Verstappen passed Hamilton after the first stops so there's no way in hell he could have held him off.

James Vowles surely has to go, one swallow does not make a summer for him IMO.

The team better be working on a new engine for next season or else they are going to be swallowed up from the get go.
(discounting the collision) what was to lose? one place either way. I see it as the best call with the knowledge they had.
That's what I thought at first but it's pretty obvious it was the wrong call for these reasons.

1. Hamilton couldn't hold Verstappen off on tyres of a similar age after the first stop.

2. Didn't the team realise that during a safety car the pack is bunched up, this means that you have fast cars on your gearbox with fresh tyres.

3. The Mercedes was very slow up the hill, Mercedes knew this and surely understood they would be a sitting duck once others have DRS.
Well normally in a restart the first driver has a massive advantage since that one can determine the pace and determine when to launch the car. Usually that means that driver has a rather massive advantage at the restart. That is what you'll see at pretty much every other venue.

But at Interlagos it is not that simple. The last few corners are rather high speed. Going too soon will make that the pursuing car has a long toe. Also given there is no slow corner to pounce from, there's opportunity to bunch the field up and take everybody by surprise. That and Verstappen was really on the money.

Though Hamilton would have lost the position anyway. The difference in tyre was really big.
#AeroFrodo

User avatar
Capharol
60
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:06 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Mercedes Formula 1 team technical director James Allison has called the decision to give Lewis Hamilton the opportunity to pit under the final safety car in Brazilian “dumb” and a “rookie error.”
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... b/4599280/
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

Wass85
Wass85
-19
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

turbof1 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:47 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:40 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:33 pm


(discounting the collision) what was to lose? one place either way. I see it as the best call with the knowledge they had.
That's what I thought at first but it's pretty obvious it was the wrong call for these reasons.

1. Hamilton couldn't hold Verstappen off on tyres of a similar age after the first stop.

2. Didn't the team realise that during a safety car the pack is bunched up, this means that you have fast cars on your gearbox with fresh tyres.

3. The Mercedes was very slow up the hill, Mercedes knew this and surely understood they would be a sitting duck once others have DRS.
Well normally in a restart the first driver has a massive advantage since that one can determine the pace and determine when to launch the car. Usually that means that driver has a rather massive advantage at the restart. That is what you'll see at pretty much every other venue.

But at Interlagos it is not that simple. The last few corners are rather high speed. Going too soon will make that the pursuing car has a long toe. Also given there is no slow corner to pounce from, there's opportunity to bunch the field up and take everybody by surprise. That and Verstappen was really on the money.

Though Hamilton would have lost the position anyway. The difference in tyre was really big.
See my last post, knowing how poor the Merc was down the straight Lewis should have left it as late as possible like Max did. In the end Max would have got by anyway but these little mistakes from Hamilton irk me.
Last edited by Wass85 on Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wass85
Wass85
-19
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

If I'm not mistaken didn't Lewis and Max have the same tyre allocation this weekend, how come Lewis didn't have any new softs left? Was it a pointless extra lap in qualifying?

cooken
cooken
12
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:57 am

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Vettel on Leclerc reminds me of Perez in Singapore, sudden move to the left for no real reason except bullying.

I don't see why Leclerc has to move over at all if he's alongside. IMO collision is at least 70/30.

LM10
LM10
132
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

What I'm gonna be curious about is, if the Honda is going to be stronger than Mercedes in Abu Dhabi as well. If yes, that would be, let's say, really interesting.
Honda was certainly not at the level of Mercedes at the beginning of the season. Now they seem to have surpassed them.

Wass85
Wass85
-19
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:11 pm
What I'm gonna be curious about is, if the Honda is going to be stronger than Mercedes in Abu Dhabi as well. If yes, that would be, let's say, really interesting.
Honda was certainly not at the level of Mercedes at the beginning of the season. Now they seem to have surpassed them.
I don't know I think they've been competitive all year long tbh, I've always found the Mercedes seems very slow relative to other cars on race day especially when they have DRS activated.

User avatar
Big Tea
164
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:11 pm
What I'm gonna be curious about is, if the Honda is going to be stronger than Mercedes in Abu Dhabi as well. If yes, that would be, let's say, really interesting.
Honda was certainly not at the level of Mercedes at the beginning of the season. Now they seem to have surpassed them.
Mercedes has lost the necessity to be the advanced engine now. The championship is settled and the will gain more kudos from observing the engines limit. However, as Botas engine quit today, I wonder what the replacement unit will be like?
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
772
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:55 pm
If I'm not mistaken didn't Lewis and Max have the same tyre allocation this weekend, how come Lewis didn't have any new softs left? Was it a pointless extra lap in qualifying?
You're mistaken.
Image
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

TwanV
TwanV
27
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:41 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Or Mercedes has a relatively draggier car at altitude.. Or their engines are turned down due to the mileage. There are so many variables that can explain why the Honda powered cars seemed quick today. But its definitely up there in the mix now that's for sure.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
772
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Re: Mercedes top speed - the team already told us that they designed a "downforce at all costs" car this year. Downforce means drag and if your competitors have similar power, more drag means lower top speed than your competitors. They've benefited from good tyre life because of the downforce, but lost out on the straights.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
-19
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:11 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:18 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:55 pm
If I'm not mistaken didn't Lewis and Max have the same tyre allocation this weekend, how come Lewis didn't have any new softs left? Was it a pointless extra lap in qualifying?
You're mistaken.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EInKGnSWkAA ... =4096x4096
Lewis couldn't have won then whatever strategy, Max is the man of the day and deserved so.

Jolle
Jolle
255
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Looks like Mercedes has less cooling for the higher altitude races, which gives them an advantage at the sea level races. More a tradeoff than a disadvantage as seen in the standings.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
772
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

TwanV wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:19 pm
Or Mercedes has a relatively draggier car at altitude.. Or their engines are turned down due to the mileage. There are so many variables that can explain why the Honda powered cars seemed quick today. But its definitely up there in the mix now that's for sure.
The RedBulls have used 5 ICEs and TR have used 7 ICEs this season compared to Mercedes 3 so the Merc lumps are probably a bit tired now, and that won't have helped today at all.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
772
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

Post

Wass85 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:22 pm
Max is the man of the day and deserved so.
I'd go with Sainz, to be honest. Last place to third is much more impressive than starting on pole and winning, especially if the former is in a midfield car, the latter in a top car.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"