2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Capharol wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:15 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:11 pm
Capharol wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:01 pm


you are finding it unneccessary and then question WHY they sending out the SC (which is already answered i believe)

but anyway again.... the first SC HAD to come out because the car of Bottas couldn't be moved manually and a crane was needed <---- THIS has the immediate effect that a SC is coming out, its anchored in the safety regulations (due to the Bianchi accident probably)

So it was all okay that the SC came out and not discussable at all
I have to disagree with you (and the regulations I suppose, if it's in there)- I think given where Bottas' car was parked that VSC would have been sufficient. Were it on the outside of the track or at a corner then absolutely full SC was the way to go. Either way, it happened anyway.

Certainly what another poster said about cars unlapping themselves is true. It was definitely not necessary to keep it out that long, and that certainly had the desired effect of manufacturing a grandstand finish...
here is the explanation of Masi
“Valtteri did a fantastic job where he stopped,” Masi is quoted by Autosport. “They were trying to push the car back into the gap, which is why we went double yellow, as we had the marshals there.

“It was off track, they were trying to push the car, but the car got stuck on the bump.

“So we actually had to deploy the crane to move it out. For me as soon as a crane is deployed, that’s it, straight Safety Car.”

Bottas’ Mercedes was removed very quickly, but Masi says the SC stayed out for six laps because everyone outside the top five needed to unlap themselves as per the regulations.

“Basically the top five cars were the only unlapped cars,” he confirmed.

“Probably the first part of it was actually getting the leader behind the safety car, which took a little bit longer purely because of car positioning, and then getting the list from timing of all the cars.

“So the first focus is obviously to clear the incident. And then the unlapping of cars is a secondary scenario.”
you can like it or dislike it, but it is what it is ......
Absolutely! You are right-It IS what it is- and I do dislike it.

I get that it would be terrible for another driver to go the way Bianchi did, but that situation- crane on a corner with cars coming right at it in a rainy Japanese Grand Prix- compared to yesterday, was pretty different. Crane and car basically hidden behind a wall well away from the racing line on a straight. My personal feeling is that it was unnecessary.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:28 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:08 pm
"Slow zones" they call it
That's the one. Thanks.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:39 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:18 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:02 pm

The Merc is worse when it is following another car, regardless of the driver, iirc ROS and BOT were poorer on restarts than HAM.
I don't know about that pal. After a few corners he's back on pace, I'm specifically talking about the run up to the start-finish line once they bolt for it. You can count on Lewis being more car lengths behind than just about every other driver.

I think I ask too much of him sometimes being a fan, I want him to be perfect in all aspects of racing. 😂
You can probably drop the pretence of being a Hamilton fan. I think everyone can pretty easily see you're not.
I don't need to drop anything, been a massive fan since he arrived in F1.

I admittedly can be over harsh on him but believe you me nothing makes me smile more than when he pulls out some magic.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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You have to laugh at Albon telling his engineer to shut the fcuk up at the restart. 😂

3jawchuck
3jawchuck
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:32 pm
TAG wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:17 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:00 pm
He's worse when he's following another car, whenever there's a restart you can always count on him having to defend instead of being the attacker. I want the old Lewis blended in the modern version.
Congratulations, you've earned it. One of only two on the ignore list.
:wtf:
And the other one is probably his other account :lol:
The account with the picture of John Cobb's Railton is always mentioned as being ignored. Do you think they are one and the same?

Wynters
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:14 pm
Just watched the last restart, boy Max is a clever racer. He ensured Albon was by his side before flooring it to stop him getting a tow.

Lewis should take note next time instead of letting folk get a run on him.
You are ahead of a faster car that is on a softer, warmer and much fresher compound. Do you:-

a) Pull as much of a gap as possible and try to defend the inside line into the corner?
b) Allow the faster car along side, on the inside line, knowing it can brake later?

A six-time WDC champion with more than a decade of experience at the top of Formula 1 chooses a). But you went with b).

A bold choice.
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:35 pm
I really do think those long hours on race sims and such really help a driver more than they realise.
Not many people would put sim-racing as being more valuable than twelve years of real-life experience. It's probably linked to why CoD-kids aren't running Special Ops teams and people who have been playing Civilisation games aren't running the world's governments.
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:41 pm
Yes fair play but I have noticed he is especially poor on restarts is Lewis. Just little niggles here and there but they can be costly when racing someone of Max's calibre.
But apparently not anyone else as he's had no consistent problem at the restart throughout his career. Weird! I wonder if it's more to do with the absurd disparity of tools available to the two drivers at that moment. Could anyone have predicated that Hamilton would be a 'sitting duck'? Or was it just down to his lack of experience and skill at restarts?

As for those saying Williams in the pit lane was all a big conspiracy.
1) Why not do it to hamper their actually title-rivals earlier in the season rather than against an 'also-ran' during a meaningless stat-padding PR-exercise?
2) Why not have Kubica go-slow as he exited the pitlane?
3) Why not leave Bottas out to hamper Verstappen during the race?
4) Why not infiltrate the stadium with a sniper to shoot out Verstappen's front-right tyre! Or use the Mercedes mind-control satellite!

Perhaps it's more logical to blame coincidence and human error instead of going straight for a huge conspiracy. After all, we all know that Vettel took out Leclerc because he was secretly protecting Hamilton from the young upstart and he wanted to cause a safety car so Hamilton could change tyres. If only the Hamilton-illuminati had known that Agent Albon would leave the door open just so he could lure poor Hamilton into the trap! Then slam it shut, protecting Verstappen on older tyres, right? And then, even though Hamilton admitted fault the only reason the Stewards would rule against him is because there's a pro-Verstappen / Anti-Hamilton conspiracy at the highest levels of F1 (a different conspiracy to the ones that penalised Verstappen in Mexico after he also admitted his guilt, obviously)! That's why they had to get rid of Bernie as he's pro-Vettel, as Brundle accidentally let slip during his grid walk!



Williams made a mistake and Kubica was slow away. Vettel misjudged the gap and squeezed Leclerc just a little too much and Hamilton dived for a gap that was only ever going to be closing. Just human error, like we see every single day.

Other than that, great race. Decent dueling at the front and plenty of great drives. Just such a shame for Ferrari. Leclerc could've got second but...
Jolle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:01 pm
I think it's quite telling that Verstappen, who is in a slower car and has the name to crash a lot is above both of the Ferrari drives in the standings.
Absolutely spot on!

I hope Sainz gets a podium celebration in Abu Dhabi. That was an outstanding drive from him. Great points for TR too. They're putting a lot of pressure on Renault who, once again, went backwards during the race. Will Renault even be able to hold onto their current WCC spot?

I feel really bad for Albon. Such a shame. Fingers-crossed Red Bull retain this performance edge at the final race.

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Wynters wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:12 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:14 pm
Just watched the last restart, boy Max is a clever racer. He ensured Albon was by his side before flooring it to stop him getting a tow.

Lewis should take note next time instead of letting folk get a run on him.
You are ahead of a faster car that is on a softer, warmer and much fresher compound. Do you:-

a) Pull as much of a gap as possible and try to defend the inside line into the corner?
b) Allow the faster car along side, on the inside line, knowing it can brake later?

A six-time WDC champion with more than a decade of experience at the top of Formula 1 chooses a). But you went with b).

A bold choice.
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:35 pm
I really do think those long hours on race sims and such really help a driver more than they realise.
Not many people would put sim-racing as being more valuable than twelve years of real-life experience. It's probably linked to why CoD-kids aren't running Special Ops teams and people who have been playing Civilisation games aren't running the world's governments.
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:41 pm
Yes fair play but I have noticed he is especially poor on restarts is Lewis. Just little niggles here and there but they can be costly when racing someone of Max's calibre.
But apparently not anyone else as he's had no consistent problem at the restart throughout his career. Weird! I wonder if it's more to do with the absurd disparity of tools available to the two drivers at that moment. Could anyone have predicated that Hamilton would be a 'sitting duck'? Or was it just down to his lack of experience and skill at restarts?

As for those saying Williams in the pit lane was all a big conspiracy.
1) Why not do it to hamper their actually title-rivals earlier in the season rather than against an 'also-ran' during a meaningless stat-padding PR-exercise?
2) Why not have Kubica go-slow as he exited the pitlane?
3) Why not leave Bottas out to hamper Verstappen during the race?
4) Why not infiltrate the stadium with a sniper to shoot out Verstappen's front-right tyre! Or use the Mercedes mind-control satellite!

Perhaps it's more logical to blame coincidence and human error instead of going straight for a huge conspiracy. After all, we all know that Vettel took out Leclerc because he was secretly protecting Hamilton from the young upstart and he wanted to cause a safety car so Hamilton could change tyres. If only the Hamilton-illuminati had known that Agent Albon would leave the door open just so he could lure poor Hamilton into the trap! Then slam it shut, protecting Verstappen on older tyres, right? And then, even though Hamilton admitted fault the only reason the Stewards would rule against him is because there's a pro-Verstappen / Anti-Hamilton conspiracy at the highest levels of F1 (a different conspiracy to the ones that penalised Verstappen in Mexico after he also admitted his guilt, obviously)! That's why they had to get rid of Bernie as he's pro-Vettel, as Brundle accidentally let slip during his grid walk!



Williams made a mistake and Kubica was slow away. Vettel misjudged the gap and squeezed Leclerc just a little too much and Hamilton dived for a gap that was only ever going to be closing. Just human error, like we see every single day.

Other than that, great race. Decent dueling at the front and plenty of great drives. Just such a shame for Ferrari. Leclerc could've got second but...
Jolle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:01 pm
I think it's quite telling that Verstappen, who is in a slower car and has the name to crash a lot is above both of the Ferrari drives in the standings.
Absolutely spot on!

I hope Sainz gets a podium celebration in Abu Dhabi. That was an outstanding drive from him. Great points for TR too. They're putting a lot of pressure on Renault who, once again, went backwards during the race. Will Renault even be able to hold onto their current WCC spot?
I'm mistaken, where did he try and pull a gap?

1) He tried to go really early and then realised it was too soon so he eased off.

2) He still went too early and let Max get a run on him.

3) Max showed that by going late and driving alongside Albon that he would lessen the opportunity to give him a tow once he made a break for it.

Listen he had great pace and was the only driver that could make a fight of it, on to the next.

Edax
Edax
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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cplchanb wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:12 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:14 pm
I thought the VSC was created for just this kind of thing! Why not use it ?
Honestly, I lament the precedence that was set by this. The car is clearly off the racing line on the inside corner where only a bonehead can actually have a chance of hitting it. Why dont they just leave it there if they cant recover it even under VSC? Statistically, I have never heard of any car hitting a stranded car in that circumstance ever...
With Raikkonen participating no service road is safe at Interlagos. You never know where he might pop up. Or has Alfa fitted navigation to his car nowadays ;-)

Joking aside. I guess with the American owners we will see more of this. In the past they used to pretend to have an excuse for safetycars in the US, like having to dust off the brake markers for visibility, but nowadays they are quite open in admitting that it is used to enhance the spectacle.

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RZS10
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Maybe Max tried something else after he saw what happened to Lewis and delayed the start even more? Maybe Lewis would have tried the same given the chance?

It's silly trying to argue one way or another and concluding that Lewis sucks at SC restarts because another driver managed to stay in front of the pack with a different approach and the power of hindsight.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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A car that cannot be moved needs a crane to lift and remove, when a crane is called for it automatically triggers a safety car.

dans79
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:58 pm
Maybe Max tried something else after he saw what happened to Lewis and delayed the start even more? Maybe Lewis would have tried the same given the chance?

It's silly trying to argue one way or another and concluding that Lewis sucks at SC restarts because another driver managed to stay in front of the pack with a different approach and the power of hindsight.
Bingo, you are correct Sir!
173 101 99 7

sprint car76
sprint car76
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Ham on used yellows vs verstap on newer reds, no contest. Honda proved they had the power plus merc screwed up by not stopping ham at the same time as verstap. It wouldn't have mattered how ham restarted he was a sitting duck. He was lucky that he could hang on to second on the restart. To top it off merc doubles down and stops ham on the last yellow hoping there is going to be a restart. Just flat out lucky there was a 2 lap dash. Made good viewing but bad bad strategy.

On last restart verstap had two teammates behind him. The win was in the bag.

Sevach
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Staying away from the topics most people wanna talk about...

I think that was as perfect a perfomance spread between the tires as i ever seen from Pirelli.
The soft had good pace and consistance, the medium had ok pace but still wore down and the hard probaly could go forever but was slow.
In my opinion that's what they should aim for.

The Bottas SC, it really annoys me how the current race directors seem eager to bring out the SC(or VSC) even though a car is behind barriers on dry conditions.
Can't they just pull it back and leave it parked there until after the race? Do they have to play around with the crane immediatelly?
I know we got all kinds of shenaningans thanks to it, but there was also a possible straight fight between Ham and Max shaping up(I think the Merc got racier on medium vs medium, than it was on soft vs soft).

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:58 pm
Maybe Max tried something else after he saw what happened to Lewis and delayed the start even more? Maybe Lewis would have tried the same given the chance?

It's silly trying to argue one way or another and concluding that Lewis sucks at SC restarts because another driver managed to stay in front of the pack with a different approach and the power of hindsight.
I mentioned it but maybe I didn't emphasise this part more. He's usually fine at restarts when he's the lead driver although yesterday he was quite poor. He's not however, good at restarts when he's in the pack or even in 2nd for that matter.

He's usually having to defend at restarts instead of making an attacking move, like I said earlier he's fine and back on it after a few corners. Maybe it is because of car characteristics but I'm not so sure, I can recall Bottas being on Hamilton's gearbox this year at Singapore. All drivers have faults and It's definitely one of the few weak parts of his game.
Last edited by Wass85 on Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

epo
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:38 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:18 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:02 pm

The Merc is worse when it is following another car, regardless of the driver, iirc ROS and BOT were poorer on restarts than HAM.
I don't know about that pal. After a few corners he's back on pace, I'm specifically talking about the run up to the start-finish line once they bolt for it. You can count on Lewis being more car lengths behind than just about every other driver.

I think I ask too much of him sometimes being a fan, I want him to be perfect in all aspects of racing. 😂
You only ask too much because, like the rest of us Ham fans we are far too used to him being the best driver by a mile. When he doesn't win, despite not being in the best car it's disappointing. But don't worry he will beat all the records and go on beating the young pretenders like Charles, Lando and George.
I feel sorry for the max fans. all this false hope, every year, must be gutting for you
[...] Hamilton was owned, he restarted on the dumbest part of the track. And yeah he is a great driver he doesn't need your help or anyone here to prove that he is currently the best driver on track.

And I don't put Norris in the same league as Leclerc or Verstappen, he is not (perhaps yet).
Last edited by Steven on Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.