2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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cooken
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Gotta say I'm a bit fuzzy on how Albon got away with his divebomb on Lando in Suzuka, but both Ric and Ham got penalties here.

Anyways, the SC for Bottas was ludicrous, VSC more than adequate especially since it's on the inside of a corner. Their procedures need looking at.

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SiLo
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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cooken wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:09 pm
Gotta say I'm a bit fuzzy on how Albon got away with his divebomb on Lando in Suzuka, but both Ric and Ham got penalties here.

Anyways, the SC for Bottas was ludicrous, VSC more than adequate especially since it's on the inside of a corner. Their procedures need looking at.
I need to see an onboard. It looked from the TV that Albon was miles off line at the time.
Felipe Baby!

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:03 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:04 pm
A car that cannot be moved needs a crane to lift and remove, when a crane is called for it automatically triggers a safety car.
Not true, the crane was not on the actual track.
Thevsc was created for precisely this situation. We have seen vsc used when cranes are inside the barriers many times before. This was a entertainment sc, no reason for the sc over the vsc.
A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.
You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.

There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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cooken wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:09 pm
Gotta say I'm a bit fuzzy on how Albon got away with his divebomb on Lando in Suzuka, but both Ric and Ham got penalties here.

Anyways, the SC for Bottas was ludicrous, VSC more than adequate especially since it's on the inside of a corner. Their procedures need looking at.
This might be thg e absolute worse year of stewarding for F1, and that is saying alot. Just in brazil the gave bad penalties to RIC and HAM, but let VET go Scott free for crashing into someone ON THE G D STRAIGHT! It is beyond absurd.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:57 pm
cooken wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:09 pm
Gotta say I'm a bit fuzzy on how Albon got away with his divebomb on Lando in Suzuka, but both Ric and Ham got penalties here.

Anyways, the SC for Bottas was ludicrous, VSC more than adequate especially since it's on the inside of a corner. Their procedures need looking at.
This might be thg e absolute worse year of stewarding for F1, and that is saying alot.
When has f1 had good stewards? :lol:
They used Black and white flag in Monza so that they could have a political advantage in Monza
Then they boasted about it in Suzuka, not even punishing a dive bomb from Albon causing damage to the mclaren
Then at Sochi they punished Magnussion for cutting and not rejoining properly (but Leclerc did the same thing in monza and didnot get any penalty)
No penalty for a visible jump start at suzuka (the first time i am seeing it in the last 22 years)
Vettel delebritly crowded at Mexico
Leclerc unsafe release at German gp > only fine for team....but Kubica get 5 seconds in brazil !
....... no penalty for any of it etc etc etc etc etc :? :? :?
Just in brazil the gave bad penalties to RIC and HAM, but let VET go Scott free for crashing into someone ON THE G D STRAIGHT! It is beyond absurd.
Yes Vettel should also been punished, some people are claiming it is coz they are the same team! But so what? even if it is his teammate, they are a competitor entered in the GP, so he should have been punished too!
Just pathetic stewarding really

saviour stivala
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:51 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:03 pm

Not true, the crane was not on the actual track.
Thevsc was created for precisely this situation. We have seen vsc used when cranes are inside the barriers many times before. This was a entertainment sc, no reason for the sc over the vsc.
A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.
You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.

There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
When a car is 'inside the barriers' it is always lifted onto a truck to return to team. in such cases their is never a need for a safety car and neither for a VSC. But when a car is on the outside of the barriers and a crane is need, since the Bianchi accident a safety car is automatic call. Yes VSC was born after the Bianchi accident.

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turbof1
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:51 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:03 pm

Not true, the crane was not on the actual track.
Thevsc was created for precisely this situation. We have seen vsc used when cranes are inside the barriers many times before. This was a entertainment sc, no reason for the sc over the vsc.
A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.
You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.

There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
Saviour Stivala is right. I am not getting into the argument if it was really necessary or with inconsistent decisions, with Masi did explain in an interview this is standard procedure.
#AeroFrodo

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:44 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:51 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am


A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.
You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.

There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
Saviour Stivala is right. I am not getting into the argument if it was really necessary or with inconsistent decisions, with Masi did explain in an interview this is standard procedure.
If Masi said that he is either misled, incorrect or lying. The vsc was instituted for this exact situation to replace the "waved double yellow flags", in order to take it out if the driver's hands to slow down sufficiently and put it in race control's hands.

There are many examples of both trucks and people "inside the barriers" with a vsc rather than sc.
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:00 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:51 pm
saviour stivala wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:38 am


A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.
You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.

There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
When a car is 'inside the barriers' it is always lifted onto a truck to return to team. in such cases their is never a need for a safety car and neither for a VSC. But when a car is on the outside of the barriers and a crane is need, since the Bianchi accident a safety car is automatic call. Yes VSC was born after the Bianchi accident.
Maybe we are using different terminology, "inside the barriers" means next to the track(but not on it), but on the side where the cars race. BOT's stricken car was inside the barriers, his car was not lifted onto a truck(flatbed), nor was it probably returned to the team until after the race. It was lifted by a crane truck and placed outside(behind) the barriers.
There have been many times when a crane/jcb is "inside the barriers"(but not on track) and a VSC was called rather than a SC, it has not been an "automatic call".

For clarification, the track is defined by the white lines, and "inside the barriers" is the space between the track(again defined by the white lines) and the barriers.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:23 pm
hamilton's last 2 laps
https://streamable.com/w9elb
https://streamable.com/w9elb

hamilton vs gasly drag race
https://streamable.com/nsqsx
https://streamable.com/nsqsx

verstappen's both overtakes on hamilton
https://streamable.com/obawj
https://streamable.com/obawj

i'll do bottas vs leclerc tommorow.
=D> =D> =D> =D>

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Singapore2008 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:58 am
Hammerfist wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:01 am
Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:23 pm
hamilton's last 2 laps
https://streamable.com/w9elb
https://streamable.com/w9elb

hamilton vs gasly drag race
https://streamable.com/nsqsx
https://streamable.com/nsqsx

verstappen's both overtakes on hamilton
https://streamable.com/obawj
https://streamable.com/obawj

i'll do bottas vs leclerc tommorow.

Where the race was lost was; after Ham executed the undercut, then got stuck behind Leclerc, which allowed Max to launch an attack, and of course the Mercedes clipping at the end of the straight pretty much sealed things. But all those things had to happen to make Max's pass possible.
I have a slightly different view of things. Max was also stuck behind Leclerc (and Kubica, which cost a lot more time)and Lewis just didn't pass Leclerc as efficient as Max did (maybe a bit of luck there). And Lewis used all his battery for his outlap. Him complaining about an empty battery seems rather silly at that point. He knows the battery is empty after an all-out outlap.

And the race wasn't lost there. There was another opportunity for an undercut, and without Kubica and Leclerc, Lewis didn't have a chance at all there.

Yeah strange you see it that way. If Leclerc is not in the way Max would have had no chance to launch an attack on that lap. I don’t think Kubica held up max in such a severe way that max could have rejoined in front of Lewis. Lewis was too far ahead. And Max only overtook Leclerc quickly because the door was open because Lewis had just gone through it. So to me it was a beautifully executed undercut that was ruined by Leclerc holding up Hamilton and then his car running out of power.

Maybe Max would have launched an attack in the following laps but we will never know if he would have gone through.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:03 am
LM10 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:51 pm
Look at the immediate reaction of Hamilton after he lost to Gasly. Keep in mind that the championship is long over already. His hunger and desire seem to be unlimited.
To some people loosing is never acceptable, and even winning sometimes isn't enough.
But he was not fighting for victory. I also think that proves hunger, and that´s is a good sign just after securing his 6th title. He keep pushing :D

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Hammerfist wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:57 pm
Singapore2008 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:58 am
Hammerfist wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:01 am



Where the race was lost was; after Ham executed the undercut, then got stuck behind Leclerc, which allowed Max to launch an attack, and of course the Mercedes clipping at the end of the straight pretty much sealed things. But all those things had to happen to make Max's pass possible.
I have a slightly different view of things. Max was also stuck behind Leclerc (and Kubica, which cost a lot more time)and Lewis just didn't pass Leclerc as efficient as Max did (maybe a bit of luck there). And Lewis used all his battery for his outlap. Him complaining about an empty battery seems rather silly at that point. He knows the battery is empty after an all-out outlap.

And the race wasn't lost there. There was another opportunity for an undercut, and without Kubica and Leclerc, Lewis didn't have a chance at all there.

Yeah strange you see it that way. If Leclerc is not in the way Max would have had no chance to launch an attack on that lap. I don’t think Kubica held up max in such a severe way that max could have rejoined in front of Lewis. Lewis was too far ahead. And Max only overtook Leclerc quickly because the door was open because Lewis had just gone through it. So to me it was a beautifully executed undercut that was ruined by Leclerc holding up Hamilton and then his car running out of power.

Maybe Max would have launched an attack in the following laps but we will never know if he would have gone through.
This 100% spot on. If Max wasn't impeded by Kubica, Max would have been where Kubica was when rejoining the track. Lewis was well clear of Kubica. Lewis was 1.8 seconds slower in S2 while behind Charles compared to his own lap previously. Charles did Max a huge favour.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:57 pm
dans79 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:03 am
LM10 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:51 pm
Look at the immediate reaction of Hamilton after he lost to Gasly. Keep in mind that the championship is long over already. His hunger and desire seem to be unlimited.
To some people loosing is never acceptable, and even winning sometimes isn't enough.
But he was not fighting for victory. I also think that proves hunger, and that´s is a good sign just after securing his 6th title. He keep pushing :D
Switching to the softs under the safety car meant he had a chance to win. Staying out on mediums meant he had no chance of winning (unless Max broke down obviously)
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https://rapidpixelracing.com

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Forgive me if it’s been asked/answered already but I gather SAI actually used DRS after the final safety car? Why was his 3rd place allowed to stand?
The name’s Hondo...