2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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aral
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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i am leaving it to others to decide on the tone of your post. but i would just say that science has backed up everything that i have said. oh, and by the way, my daughter , and her husband are environmental scientists , so i do have some knowledge of the subject.
TAG wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:22 pm
aral wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm
its an interesting topic but sometimes a bit OTT. Global warming has been happening since the ice age, which itself was a cooling after a previous hot period....grape vine fossils even found in finland ! It is all part of the pulsating cycle of our earth. It just happens to be the in thing to talk about these days.
Remember the hole in the ozone layer which was to see the end of the world? surprise surprise, it mended itself and now it is not a problem.
and now it has been identified that there are glaciers in the arctic and in patagonia that are actually increasing in size. maybe the fact that they dont so far host an F1 race is the reason? :D
This is as ignorant a comment as I've ever seen on this forum. For facts based technical forum you've got technical papers or scientifically peer reviewed white papers that support your completely contrarian to current scientific thinking with nothing but your opinion here?

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TAG
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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aral wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:46 pm
i am leaving it to others to decide on the tone of your post. but i would just say that science has backed up everything that i have said. oh, and by the way, my daughter , and her husband are environmental scientists , so i do have some knowledge of the subject.
TAG wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:22 pm
aral wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm
its an interesting topic but sometimes a bit OTT. Global warming has been happening since the ice age, which itself was a cooling after a previous hot period....grape vine fossils even found in finland ! It is all part of the pulsating cycle of our earth. It just happens to be the in thing to talk about these days.
Remember the hole in the ozone layer which was to see the end of the world? surprise surprise, it mended itself and now it is not a problem.
and now it has been identified that there are glaciers in the arctic and in patagonia that are actually increasing in size. maybe the fact that they dont so far host an F1 race is the reason? :D
This is as ignorant a comment as I've ever seen on this forum. For facts based technical forum you've got technical papers or scientifically peer reviewed white papers that support your completely contrarian to current scientific thinking with nothing but your opinion here?
My comment is about your post, lacking ANY scientific evidence other than opinions provided by you. I'm not attacking you personally. You can choose to provide evidence that's scientifically peer reviewed and published that supports your opinion or you can hide behind the fact that you didn't like my challenge to your post.

It is a technical forum after all.

EDIT: for example, Scientific Consensus: Earth's Climate is Warming
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sosic2121
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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This discussion includes very little facts and lots of opinions.
My opinion is with aral.

IMO it's more likely for global warming to be a scam to suit some agenda.
I'm not saying we should continue to behave as we do now, but some things certainly don't make any sense...

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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aral wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm

Remember the hole in the ozone layer which was to see the end of the world? surprise surprise, it mended itself and now it is not a problem.
The Ozone "hole" has not "mended itself" at all. It has improved to the point where it is at its smallest, but it is still there.
The annual ozone hole reached its peak extent of 6.3 million square miles (16. 4 million square kilometers) on Sept. 8, and then shrank to less than 3.9 million square miles (10 million square kilometers) for the remainder of September and October, according to NASA and NOAA satellite measurements. During years with normal weather conditions, the ozone hole typically grows to a maximum area of about 8 million square miles in late September or early October.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... -discovery

Note that the "hole", even at its smallest, is larger in area than the entire USA (c. 3.8 million square miles).

It will be there for some time to come because even though humans have massively reduced the release of the CFCs that were the cause of the hole, the effects are long lasting because the chemicals involved are long lasting.

It's interesting to note that the CFC issue was relatively easy to solve because there were readily available alternatives to the worst CFCs. Switching to non-CO2 producing energy systems will not be nearly so easy, of course, and so effects will take longer to mitigate.

Perhaps you should stick to preferentially modding the Ferrari forums and avoid the technical discussions. :roll:
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TAG
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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sosic2121 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:41 pm
This discussion includes very little facts and lots of opinions.
My opinion is with aral.

IMO it's more likely for global warming to be a scam to suit some agenda.
I'm not saying we should continue to behave as we do now, but some things certainly don't make any sense...
:wtf:

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

There's about two dozen US and international scientific studies linked here. The only opinions are yours, looking forward to clicking on your scientific published peer reviewed studies that support your opinion.
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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there has never been an Antarctic ozone measurement not showing what is misleadingly called a 'hole'
(at first they blamed it on atmospheric testing of nukes - this was then promptly banned)

so (it has been said) no great reason to believe that some 'hole' isn't the natural state of the Antarctic atmosphere
(the Antarctic atmosphere being unlike the Arctic's because the Southern Hemisphere is unlike the Northern Hemisphere etc)

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izzy
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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TAG wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:19 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:41 pm
This discussion includes very little facts and lots of opinions.
My opinion is with aral.

IMO it's more likely for global warming to be a scam to suit some agenda.
I'm not saying we should continue to behave as we do now, but some things certainly don't make any sense...
:wtf:

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

There's about two dozen US and international scientific studies linked here. The only opinions are yours, looking forward to clicking on your scientific published peer reviewed studies that support your opinion.
Yes exactly!! Lol, just because the climate varies, some people think they can deny the inconvenient freaking obvious. BUT
The mean temperature for the 10 years from 2010 to 2019 was the highest on record, at 0.86 °C above average, and 0.31 °C warmer than the 10 years 2000–2009. All the years since 2013 have been amongst the ten warmest on record for Australia. Of the ten warmest years, only one (1998) occurred before 2005. Warming associated with anthropogenic climate change has seen Australian annual mean temperatures increase by over one degree since 1910. Most of this warming has occurred since 1950.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/aus/

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RZS10
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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I personally think F1 with massive fires in the background would look epic... we had night races, races in heavy rain etc ... time for a race in hell.

3jawchuck
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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aral wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm
....
Remember the hole in the ozone layer which was to see the end of the world? surprise surprise, it mended itself and now it is not a problem.
....
Ozone depletion has not been fully rectified. The Ozone layer is recovering, and that is because the international community did something about it.

This is a sensitive issue, I agree, and one that leads to a lot of feeling. However, you are making extraordinary claims, prove them or step back.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Lewis Hamilton has donated $500,000 Australian dollars to the aid effort following the fires.

Good lad.

aral
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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It seems as if I am to be the butt of abuse for stating actual facts. There is no need for me to direct others to papers etc as many papers have been written for and against the subject. I am not claiming that there is not warming, but what I am saying is that it is a natural and cyclical event in the formation and evolution of the earth. and yes, there are many articles about some of the arctic glaciers actually growing and only the other day, there was news that a glacier in patagonia was growing but the reasons were not known.
As this is an open forum, I am as entitled as anyone to express my views and knowledge, and if some dont like it....tough ! But no need for orders to "step back".
Lets agree to disagree, but do leave yourself open to other educated viewpoints.
3jawchuck wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:09 pm
aral wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm
....
Remember the hole in the ozone layer which was to see the end of the world? surprise surprise, it mended itself and now it is not a problem.
....
Ozone depletion has not been fully rectified. The Ozone layer is recovering, and that is because the international community did something about it.

This is a sensitive issue, I agree, and one that leads to a lot of feeling. However, you are making extraordinary claims, prove them or step back.

Scorpaguy
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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...not entering either side of this fray, but do wish to discuss the semantics of statistics. Please note that "warmest on record" does not actually mean warmest. The earth was much warmer on a number of occasions, most notably the periods of 700MYA and 50MYA. Warmest on record is dealing with a span of about 100 years in the earth's 4.5 billion year history.

On the flipside, many aver their particular beliefs are proven by the difference in polar temps and trends thereof. However, such is easily explained via the simple physics of reflectivity...warming may be more extreme/dire than some alarmist's predictions.

As for me, I opt to place my faith and trust in no humans (far too experienced with this species for that) and do the best I can re my own personal lifestyle and decisions. Listening to the fear mongers on either side is neither productive nor realistic.

Conservation and progression are generally good things. Trusting all humans and governments to adhere to draconian measures is dismissive our history and nature.

As for now, contribute to the Aussie fire benefit funds and hope conditions improve...and enjoy F1.

Rodak
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Well, something is certainly going on. I'm a climber and I have been amazed how the glaciers on Mt. Rainier have retreated in the last decades. Used to be there were ice caves under a glacier within easy walking distance of Paradise; they are now gone. All the glaciers have retreated, some a distance of miles. The Nisqually glacier used to reach the bridge, aptly named Glacier Bridge in the picture below. We still get lots of snow up at Paradise (@ 5400 feet), the record being 1122 inches in 1971-1972 but the averages have been falling and are typically in the 600"-700" range, but it melts off way faster than it used to.....

edit: don't know how to insert a photo....

bill shoe
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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Scorpaguy wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:12 pm
The earth was much warmer on a number of occasions, most notably the periods of 700MYA and 50MYA.
And Bernie refused to cancel any race during any of those years :lol: .

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Australian GP might be threatened

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RZS10 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:27 pm
I personally think F1 with massive fires in the background would look epic... we had night races, races in heavy rain etc ... time for a race in hell.
Pah, Peugeot did it back in the 1980s...

Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"