2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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langedweil
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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foxmulder_ms wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:01 am
langedweil wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:30 am
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:13 am


I have to disagree.

Lewis has driven some cars that were dogs as well, he's won races in every season he's competed in. It's usually when the
car is poor that he has the biggest gap to his teammates.
You're totally allowed to disagree!
It's just (or better, I'd say) that the godlike status is misplaced; he ain't no God .. he's very good, no God.
He would be if he'd win in an Alfa or Williams though.
for practical purposes, there is no god anyway.. But HAM is F1 GOAT ;)
I fully agree with the first part !
8)
Sunshine is just a choice ...

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:50 am
Only Palmers analysis so far absolutely nailed the reason for the crash which was that he actually dabs on the power at the Apex of the corner when Albon is slightly ahead which then causes the understeer. He didn't want to lose out to a rookie who would have made the pass look so easy.
Confirmation bias in action. =D>
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Look at that! Listen to Hamilton's throttle... nothing could be done, and please don't say step on the brakes... racing incident!


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Pyrone89
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 am
Look at that! Listen to Hamilton's throttle... nothing could be done, and please don't say step on the brakes... racing incident!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ixUBA ... b_err_woyt
More people would listen to you on Hamilton related matters when your signature is not basically his helmet layout.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Yeah I do think that if the team had evidence that it wasn't Lewis' fault, then they would have appealed this. Especially now that there is no telling how many races there will be so every point will count. Since the team isn't appealing, I think they may know internally that they have no grounds (no evidence) to support their claim as a racing incident. Or are these penalties exempt from appeal?

McMika98
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 am
Look at that! Listen to Hamilton's throttle... nothing could be done, and please don't say step on the brakes... racing incident!
Yes he could have, Albon is on his left and yet he decides to miss the apex worse still he applies the throttle mid corner when Albon is already in front, this causes him to understeer out towards Albon who is outside the racing line. Totally his making, he applied the gas earlier instead he should have let the car steer the corner before applying the throttle. No-one is asking him to brake and also he does not apply full lock as we are told to believe.

KiLLu12258
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 am
Look at that! Listen to Hamilton's throttle... nothing could be done, and please don't say step on the brakes... racing incident!
Yes he could have, Albon is on his left and yet he decides to miss the apex worse still he applies the throttle mid corner when Albon is already in front, this causes him to understeer out towards Albon who is outside the racing line. Totally his making, he applied the gas earlier instead he should have let the car steer the corner before applying the throttle. No-one is asking him to brake and also he does not apply full lock as we are told to believe.
that means nothing. He did kind of a full lock for that corner and speed.
i think it was just hard to avoid it. race incident for me- but with this outcome the 5sec for ham were ok i think.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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e30ernest wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:45 am
Yeah I do think that if the team had evidence that it wasn't Lewis' fault, then they would have appealed this. Especially now that there is no telling how many races there will be so every point will count. Since the team isn't appealing, I think they may know internally that they have no grounds (no evidence) to support their claim as a racing incident. Or are these penalties exempt from appeal?
Can not appeal this type of penalty

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 am
Look at that! Listen to Hamilton's throttle... nothing could be done, and please don't say step on the brakes... racing incident!
Yes he could have, Albon is on his left and yet he decides to miss the apex worse still he applies the throttle mid corner when Albon is already in front, this causes him to understeer out towards Albon who is outside the racing line. Totally his making, he applied the gas earlier instead he should have let the car steer the corner before applying the throttle. No-one is asking him to brake and also he does not apply full lock as we are told to believe.
Everything you posted is false. Watch the video, HAM did not apply throttle until after the collision.

The collision/contact is 100% Albon's fault, he did not leave proper racing room.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:09 am
he does not apply full lock as we are told to believe.
"full lock" is speed dependant. Come on, this is car driving 101 that's taught to first time drivers when they're kids - you can't just apply full lock at any speed, if you try you'll either lose the back end or, more likely, the front tyres will lose grip and you'll understeer massively. On that corner, at that speed, any car will have its own "full lock" available depending on the car's design and the tyre's available grip which is down to tyre type, compound, wear etc.

:roll:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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McMika98 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 am
Look at that! Listen to Hamilton's throttle... nothing could be done, and please don't say step on the brakes... racing incident!
No-one is asking him to brake and also he does not apply full lock as we are told to believe.
Now I'm not having a go at you , I am just saying, with your last sentence, you show you don't actually understand how racing on the limit works. Lewis is applying the maximum lock possible, every corner pretty much the drivers will use the maximum lock they can, if they apply any more lock, the car will understeer. Once the driver is on the limit of grip, the more lock he applies, the more the car understeers. If Lewis applied more lock like you suggest, the contact between the 2 cars would be a lot harder. You can't just "apply full lock" as you put it. You need to understand how a car corners while on the limit of adhesion. So please , no more "He didnt use full lock" BS.

Edit; Just_a_fan beat me to it =D>
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sosic2121
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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full lock
:lol: :lol: :lol:

basti313
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 am
Look at that! Listen to Hamilton's throttle... nothing could be done,.....
Nothing could be done? Do not get disrespectful for Hamilton. We are not in a junior series where you need to defend your favorite Noob...
e30ernest wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:45 am
Yeah I do think that if the team had evidence that it wasn't Lewis' fault, then they would have appealed this.
It is borderline stupid to speak about a "fault" given the last 10 years of Formula1 with Hamilton. A few years ago Hamilton was celebrated for running Rosberg wide every time he Ros was on the outside. This is the usual hard racing, Hamilton would never give up the outside curb.
Here Albon had so much more grip that it was not the usual wheel to wheel touch, but front wheel to back wheel. This is no fault, this is no racing incident, this is simply a drive through penalty because of hard racing on the razor edge.
And it was "one for the team", without kicking Albon he would have won. Hamilton is a team player.
NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:59 am

Now I'm not having a go at you , I am just saying, with your last sentence, you show you don't actually understand how racing on the limit works. ......
Seems like you do not know this track or do not know how racing works at all.
The corner is a masterpiece of a corner. It has a changing radius and is hanging to the outside, before it changes to inside. The fastest way here is to break to the apex, apply slight throttle to trigger understeer to the outside apex where full throttle is applied. Throttle is really only slight, every bit of pushing it causes understeer.
A perfect example for this is the pole lap of Bottas this year. You can nicely see how he applies throttle to get the car into understeering, opens the steering to get the car out of understeering before the apex and then corrects the oversteer when he pushes the throttle fully.
Same in the fight Ham vs. Alb. The slight rattle noise from the exhaust once Ham is at the apex is simply slight throttle for understeer.
As said before...it is somewhere between impolite to disrespectful to say a Formula1 driver is not capable of driving this corner in different lines. For myself it is too difficult, I am anywhere in this corner...but not a F1 driver and certainly not Hamilton.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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basti313 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:55 am

Seems like you do not know this track or do not know how racing works at all.
The corner is a masterpiece of a corner. It has a changing radius and is hanging to the outside, before it changes to inside. The fastest way here is to break to the apex, apply slight throttle to trigger understeer to the outside apex where full throttle is applied. Throttle is really only slight, every bit of pushing it causes understeer.
A perfect example for this is the pole lap of Bottas this year. You can nicely see how he applies throttle to get the car into understeering, opens the steering to get the car out of understeering before the apex and then corrects the oversteer when he pushes the throttle fully.
Same in the fight Ham vs. Alb. The slight rattle noise from the exhaust once Ham is at the apex is simply slight throttle for understeer.
As said before...it is somewhere between impolite to disrespectful to say a Formula1 driver is not capable of driving this corner in different lines. For myself it is too difficult, I am anywhere in this corner...but not a F1 driver and certainly not Hamilton.
Understeer is just a consequence of picking up the throttle, you have to pick the throttle up before the car is straight as the coner is opening up but continues for a long distance. I wouldn't say they are applying throuttle to trigger understeer. They are simply applying throttle as early as possible for a faster exit, Understeer on the exit is not something that is desired. You are saying the drivers are wanting the car to understeer on the exit ??
GoLandoGo
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McMika98
McMika98
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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NathanOlder wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:59 am
quote]

Now I'm not having a go at you , I am just saying, with your last sentence, you show you don't actually understand how racing on the limit works. Lewis is applying the maximum lock possible, every corner pretty much the drivers will use the maximum lock they can, if they apply any more lock, the car will understeer. Once the driver is on the limit of grip, the more lock he applies, the more the car understeers. If Lewis applied more lock like you suggest, the contact between the 2 cars would be a lot harder. You can't just "apply full lock" as you put it. You need to understand how a car corners while on the limit of adhesion. So please , no more "He didnt use full lock" BS.

Edit; Just_a_fan beat me to it =D>
Sorry too many contradictions and misinformation. Each driver have their own style of taking a corner and after all they are experienced racer they can take as many lines and expect to control the car, not take the maximum lock everytime.
Fact is lewis missed the inside kerb dunno if it is by design but he then choose to get on the power before he gained control of his car. If he had continued to roll the car even with the same lock they would not touch. He is already taking too much speed and missing the apex and yet on the throttle earlier than he should be knowing full well there was a car to his right who was ahead then.
Its impossible for a driver to lose control of a car in any corner when off throttle unless it is raining.