2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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lh13 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:01 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:34 am

The decision means that any driver that drives around the outside gets a free pass - if I try it around you and we touch then that's your fault. So you'll try to avoid me. So I get a free pass. That's just bunkum.
The driver on the outside has got to be 'ahead' to get a 'free pass', so not that simple.
Also the same thing will happen in another race soon and the driver on the inside won’t get a penalty and it’ll be deemed a racing incident. And then this debate will start all over again. In a way I feel there’s no point in even debating it because the stewards/race director’s call is never consistent and that is the maddening thing.

If you look objectively at 10-20 random contact incidents one after the other while hearing what the ‘decision made’ was for each one, you’ll get laughably different outcomes for similar incidents.

As I’ve said and someone else said on this thread. They base it too much on what happens to the two cars, entirely the wrong way to judge it. If Albon only loses a place or two, then Hamilton doesn’t get a penalty for that incident. Sad but true. If Leclerc has put Hamilton in the wall in Monzo last year with that same move, then Leclerc gets a penalty. Sad but true. You can’t base the punishment on the consequences or the circumstances. It’s got to be fully objective at all times.

komninosm
komninosm
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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sprint car76 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:36 pm
Since we're talking about giving room. Watch the first 3 corners at the start where Albon is on the inside. How much room did he give Hamilton? Hamilton got squeezed but is smart enough not to get hit.
They'd probably say Ham fault on that too...
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:34 pm
https://scontent.fcok4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5F2614B0

https://serving.photos.photobox.com/817 ... b89e79.jpg

From these two images u can clearly see there were enough room for Albon to run wider and not hit Lewis
and moreover Lewis was on full lock and he also has every right to hold his line into that corner

The contact happened was unlucky and is just a racing incident, no one to blame there

The Penalty for this was appalling, a simple racing incident penalised to fabricate results and just by emotions without looking into it after the race. (just like the numerous safety cars)

What happened to all the let them race stupidity with black and orange flag shenanigans which was used last year ? why those are not followed?

Just goes to show that FIA are there to fabricate results
It's pretty obvious that they basically just invented that black and orange flag to boost Ferrari and harm Hamilton.

The penalty Hamilton got was a clear disgrace by FIA/Stewards. You can even see Albon really squeezing Hamilton out of track twice in the first Lap of the race, one in the same corner:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 2QxMR.html
If anyone deserved a penalty it was Albon. For causing a collision. Same thing as when Hamilton in a decade old race passed a much slower car on a straight and then moved over to the edge too soon and didn't give the slow car enough room to break for the turn.

The other disgrace was Bottas, binning it in qualifying to protect his pole with forced yellow flags, and pushing a teammate with 5 seconds penalty backwards into opponents in the end. And Mercedes team for not giving clear orders to let him pass and defend the rear so they can have their 1-2 podium. Not to mention for not allowing Hamilton again to do a different strategy. Mercedes tactics department is too stuck in its ways and obuse.

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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You forgot about the 'more lenient on lap 1' approach. And the FIA against Merc/Lew? Are you kidding me? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Have you been watching F1 just since last week?
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:06 pm
You forgot about the 'more lenient on lap 1' approach. And the FIA against Merc/Lew? Are you kidding me? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Have you been watching F1 just since last week?
Probably since last Sunday, since on the last Saturday they tried sweep under the carpet that Hamilton ignored yellow flags :lol:

NathanE
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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I think I might have worked out the stewarding issue. There's a huge poster saying "end racism" on the end of the grandstand. As a bunch of old white men I reckon they think this says "end racing" 😁

komninosm
komninosm
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Wynters wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:46 pm
I assume Norris didn't get a penalty for punting Perez out of the way, despite being behind through the whole corner? If he didn't, does someone want to explain exactly what the rule is?
Here's the rule.
Does giving Norris a penalty cause Hamilton to get more points? Then Norris didn't break any rules. #-o :roll:
It's just "hard racing" TM and "let them race".

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Pyrone89
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Albon and the wall in Hockenheim disagree with you
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

komninosm
komninosm
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Location: Macedonia

Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Pyrone89 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:17 pm
Albon and the wall in Hockenheim disagree with you
You'll have to explain that as it doesn't seem to affect what I said (that you didn't even have the courtesy to quote...
Phil wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:50 pm
IMO, i really dont think Lewis was punished for doing something wrong, he was punished because Albon’s race was ruined and thus for the consequence, not a “crime”.

In the same sense, Albon wasnt punished on lap1 because there was no “consequence” because Lewis avoided heavy contact by going off track. Maybe why Leclerc also wasnt punished at Monza last year either, because again, Lewis avoided a crash and thus there was no “consequence” to punish.

Personally, i think it’s wrong to punish based on consequence. It assumes in this case that Albon was free of any responsability. What would the stewards have done if Lewis had suffered a broken suspension and Albon had carried on in 2nd place without issue? Would he have then received that 5 second time penalty for “ruining Lewis’s race”? Somehow, i think yes, which IMO underlines the stupidity of the penalty in the first place.
This is partly the reason. Like you say if Albon escaped unharmed and Hamilton retired with a broken suspension they would have punished Albon for not making the overtake clean and not using space on the outside. (well maybe if it wasn't Hamilton but some other driver in his place)

The other reason is that Hamilton is making the title fight "boring" and there are legions of haters (even racist ones that call him monkey and worse - banned a couple in this very forum) that must be placated and the show must go on. So they will drop the hammer on Hamilton every time they can and even when they shouldn't.
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:25 pm
matt_b wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:44 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:25 am
Thoughts on the idea that Mercedes should have asked Bottas to let Hamilton through to build the gap to keep the 1-2 or 1-3? Ive seen people saying Bottas wouldn't let it happen because of the WDC, which I understand, but also that in the first race of the season the team is going to want to maximise points as much as possible.
I wondered why they didn't let Lewis past then it occurred to me what if Lewis opened up a 5 second gap to Bottas, how awkward would that be :lol: or what if LeClerc caught Bottas and they made contact, I think Mercedes just couldn't decide on what to do in time and just wanted to secure the win with the leading car in the race. Ultimately they were caught napping not pitting when everyone else did which seems to be a common pattern with their strategy team.
This is the exact reason i think. Also they were worried about tyres. So yes agreed they didnt have the quick thinking like what RedBull or Ferrari typically have. They like a steady ship.
This was completely a stupid move by Mercedes. They could have even told Lewis not to open a bigger gap than 5 seconds to Bottas. Remember when Bottas let Hamilton pass him to fight the car in front in the last laps of a race, but when he failed, Hamilton gave back the position on the last lap to Bottas? They have behaved like gentlemen so far and I think sadly Bottas misbehaved twice this race.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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NathanE wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:56 pm
I think I might have worked out the stewarding issue. There's a huge poster saying "end racism" on the end of the grandstand. As a bunch of old white men I reckon they think this says "end racing" 😁
Racism..
The love of racing...

End it!

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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:54 pm
NathanE wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:56 pm
I think I might have worked out the stewarding issue. There's a huge poster saying "end racism" on the end of the grandstand. As a bunch of old white men I reckon they think this says "end racing" 😁
Racism..
The love of racing...

End it!
As I said previously, Race is the wrong word as only one can win.
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

nacho
nacho
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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I think Bottas slowed down because of double yellows?

I don't think there's any proof that the error he made in qualifying wasn't a genuine one.

Ringleheim
Ringleheim
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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I thought it was interesting that Ferrari didn't even bother putting a new rear wing on Vettel's car. I know, it takes a long time and he would have gone 5 or 6 laps down or more, but he had the entire race ahead of him! That's a lot of track testing time and they were in a golden opportunity to compare the same car on the same track with and without all the new upgrades.

Instead, they just parked it! LOL. Shows you how much they value this season. That is to say, they don't.

epo
epo
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Ringleheim wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:39 pm
I thought it was interesting that Ferrari didn't even bother putting a new rear wing on Vettel's car. I know, it takes a long time and he would have gone 5 or 6 laps down or more, but he had the entire race ahead of him! That's a lot of track testing time and they were in a golden opportunity to compare the same car on the same track with and without all the new upgrades.

Instead, they just parked it! LOL. Shows you how much they value this season. That is to say, they don't.
Fail to see your point, don't think any team would consider to replace the rear wing only perhaps if there is rain and more chance of safety cars. They the car is slow, better preserve your engine so you might be able to run it higher in future races.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Sebs race was obviously over, but I can see some point in using the race as testing. Even if it was only a rear wing.
20 or 30 laps of testing new parts (if they have them) could be useful later in the year
Of course we do not know how much else was damaged.
I am very much in favour of filtered water. Preferably passed through a brewery

Wynters
Wynters
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Re: 2020 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, 3-5 July

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:29 pm
Sebs race was obviously over, but I can see some point in using the race as testing. Even if it was only a rear wing.
20 or 30 laps of testing new parts (if they have them) could be useful later in the year
Of course we do not know how much else was damaged.
If it was possible to repair it sufficiently to get 'as new' data then that would be one thing. Although how long it would take to fully ascertain that there was not enough damage to provided 'corrupted' testing data is unlikely to be a short period. I'd want to fully dismantle any part of the car that might have suffered damage.

There's also the question of the PR impact. Given it's such a short lap and given blue flags are initiated when the gap is 3-seconds, he'd spend the entirety of the race constantly being passed. Possibly even by Williams and Haas. That's not good for the Ferrari brand and definitely not good for their sponsors.

The main issue was definitely the potential damage, but don't entirely discount the issues of embarrassing the people paying for you to go racing (and, thanks to the internet, that embarrassment would be around for years).